Re: [Moq] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-dawkins-sdp-rtp-quic-questions-01.txt

Sergio said:

"We should only support RTP over quick datagram, what about
webtransport support?"

[BA] Currently there are issues with WebTransport support for Web realtime
communications in the client -> server direction, summarized here:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1SG1FUvn9UKGx_gAqWnCzPHlsIXkDUXctZPs7blfqS5k/

While the metrics issue is unique to WebTransport, the issues with QUIC
congestion control will also affect realtime media directly over QUIC.  The
biggest issue is slow recovery of media quality after packet loss. Without
probing similar to what is done in WebRTC today, recovering media quality
will be slow, particularly when simulcast or SVC is used.

"We need to define how ICE and QUIC over RTP interact together (should be
fairly simple)"

[BA]  The basics of QUIC over ICE were demonstrated in the RTCQuicTransport
Origin trial:
https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2019/01/rtcquictransport-api

I don't think that RTP adds any complexities.

A specification for QUIC multiplexing with STUN/TURN is available here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-avtcore-rfc7983bis

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 7:39 AM Sergio Garcia Murillo <
sergio.garcia.murillo@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Spencer,
>
> Great to see a proposal in this direction! I was tempted to
> propose something similar, so I will be willing to collaborate. Do you have
> any github project were we could propose changes or raise issues?
>
> Here are some of my preliminar thoughts:
>
> - We should only support RTP over quick datagram, what about
> webtransport support?
> - IMHO the name should be UDP/QUIC/RTP/AVPF (SAVPF is for SRTP which we
> don't use as the security is provided by the underlying QUIC transport)
> - We need to define how ICE and QUIC over RTP interact together (should be
> fairly simple)
> - Do we want to specify how to reuse an established QUIC (or web
> transport connection) for sending RTP within it? This may be impacted by
> the ability to do datagram multiplexing.
> - How about Datachannels over QUIC?
>
> Last, even if this list is for media over quic, this proposal seems that
> could be better suited for avtcore or mmusic discussion.
>
> Best regards
> Sergio
>
>
> El mar, 26 oct 2021 a las 23:37, Spencer Dawkins at IETF (<
> spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>) escribió:
>
>> Dear MOQ subscribers,
>>
>> Just to follow on James' excellent lead, I've also revised this draft,
>> which is an attempt to identify the requirements that RTP over QUIC will
>> place on SDP signaling for this type of media traffic.
>>
>> As James said about our mutual draft, my understanding is that we're
>> expected to have conversations about "Media Over QUIC" on this mailing
>> list. If anyone has a different understanding, please let the mailing list
>> know, so that we can Do The Right Thing.
>>
>> Otherwise, let's be thinking how to move this work forward in the IETF
>> 112 timeframe.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Spencer
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>> Date: Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 12:38 PM
>> Subject: New Version Notification for
>> draft-dawkins-sdp-rtp-quic-questions-01.txt
>> To: Spencer Dawkins <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
>>
>>
>>
>> A new version of I-D, draft-dawkins-sdp-rtp-quic-questions-01.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Spencer Dawkins and posted to the
>> IETF repository.
>>
>> Name:           draft-dawkins-sdp-rtp-quic-questions
>> Revision:       01
>> Title:          SDP Offer/Answer for RTP using QUIC as Transport - Design
>> Questions
>> Document date:  2021-10-25
>> Group:          Individual Submission
>> Pages:          13
>> URL:
>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-dawkins-sdp-rtp-quic-questions-01.txt
>> Status:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dawkins-sdp-rtp-quic-questions/
>> Html:
>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-dawkins-sdp-rtp-quic-questions-01.html
>> Htmlized:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-dawkins-sdp-rtp-quic-questions
>> Diff:
>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-dawkins-sdp-rtp-quic-questions-01
>>
>> Abstract:
>>    This document is a companion document to "SDP Offer/Answer for RTP
>>    using QUIC as Transport".  That document focuses on the description
>>    and registration of SDP "proto" attribute parameters with IANA, to
>>    allow applications that rely on SDP Offer/Answer to negotiate the
>>    QUIC protocol as an encapsulation for RTP.
>>
>>    In writing that document, it became obvious that decisions about an
>>    appropriate SDP description would depend on decisions about the way
>>    RTP would be encapsulated in QUIC, and different proposals for those
>>    encapsulations had made different assumptions.  Given that none of
>>    these proposals have been adopted by an IETF working group yet, it's
>>    not appropriate to try to base a general-purpose set of "QUIC/RTP"
>>    IANA registrations on any one of them, so this document includes the
>>    questions that have come up, and (as discussions progress) suggested
>>    answers for those questions.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The IETF Secretariat
>>
>>
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>>
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