Re: [mpls] Some following questions about ISD

Hi Jie,
I believe that in his last note, Tony had answered this question already
and I concur with him. In my opinion, the MNA header, that the WG adopted
is already, is future-proof. I believe that whether one or more reserved
bits should be used to signal the presence of PSD in the packet could be
decided if and when the WG agrees that the PSD is required (not possible
but required) to support a valid use case that cannot be reasonably
supported using ISD MNA.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 8:35 PM Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> Please see my reply to Tony on this point:
>
>
>
> “Since PSD is described in the MNA framework draft, it is assumed that it
> is already part of the framework (and remember the WG poll on it last
> year). What haven’t got converged yet is for specific applications (e.g.
> IOAM) whether PSD is needed or not. Then why not making the PSD indicator
> part of the general MNA header encoding in the beginning? The discussion on
> per-application choice of ISD vs PSD can continue.”
>
>
>
> We have had several presentations about the PSD use cases in the past
> interim meetings, and there have been presentations about the limitations
> of ISD both on the interims and IETF 117 meeting. Maybe all of these need
> to be documented to facilitate people’s review and also to avoid reiterated
> arguments.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jie
>
>
>
> *From:* Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 12, 2023 11:57 PM
> *To:* Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>
> *Cc:* Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>; mpls@ietf.org; MPLS Working Group <
> mpls-chairs@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-mpls-mna-hdr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] Some following questions about ISD
>
>
>
> Hi Jie,
>
> top-posting your comment
>
> [Jie] The PSD draft specifies the detailed encoding of the PSD
> information, while whether PSD is needed or not as a part of the MNA
> solution is described in the framework draft. From this perspective we
> don’t need to wait until the PSD draft gets adopted, as long as we know PSD
> would be there anyway, and an indicator for it in the NAS is needed.
>
> I am unsure that "we know that PSD would be there anyway". As I look at the
> list of the MNA use cases
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-mna-usecases/>, I
> cannot find a single case that cannot be realized using the ISD MNA
> solution. Am I missing something here?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 8:36 AM Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong=
> 40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Tony,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the response. Please see further inline:
>
>
>
> *From:* Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> *On Behalf Of *Tony Li
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 12, 2023 1:10 PM
> *To:* Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>
> *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org; MPLS Working Group <mpls-chairs@ietf.org>;
> draft-ietf-mpls-mna-hdr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mpls] Some following questions about ISD
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Jimmy,
>
>
>
>
>
> 1.       Regarding the RLD, one question is: will RLD be considered in
> path computation/selection for packets with NAS?
>
>
>
>
>
> It should be. One approach is to consider RLD to be a constraint for your
> path computation engine.
>
>
>
> *[Jie] OK, then in which document should this be specified? *
>
>
>
>
>
> For example, if it is known that the size of NAS itself (not counting any
> forwarding or service labels) already exceeds the RLD of some network
> nodes, how would the NAS imposing node do?
>
>
>
>
>
> Pick another path with a higher RLD. If none exists, then notify
> management and fail.
>
>
>
> *[Jie] For an ingress node, it could pick another path with a higher RLD.
> But if it is a transit node which adds new actions, it may not have the
> right/capability to choose another path. The behavior in this case also
> needs to be specified. *
>
>
>
>
>
> 2.       Since we are considering duplicating ISDs to accommodate to the
> RLD limitation, one relevant question is: for a node whose RLD can cover
> more than one NAS, how many NAS should it parse and process?
>
>
>
>
>
> As already defined in the framework document, the node should process only
> one NAS per scope.
>
>
>
> *[Jie] This means a node needs be able to locate multiple NAS labels in
> the stack, and parse the corresponding multiple NASes, if they are with
> different scopes. I**’d suggest to add this to the framework document, as
> it is a new behavior to MPLS label stack processing. *
>
>
>
> If it needs to parse all the NAS in the RLD, it may find the following NAS
> are duplicated and this would waste the node’s resource. But if it only
> parses the first NAS, there may be following NAS with another scope which
> also need to be processed by this node.
>
>
>
>
>
> This is correct. Don’t hide your NASes. ;-)
>
>
>
> The key point here is that a node will only need to process the Select and
> I2E scope NASes if they have a single label above them.  Thus, you only
> need to scan to the depth of the first HBH NAS, or the second regular
> label, whichever is greater.
>
>
>
> *[Jie] This may depend on the order of the HBH NAS and the Select/I2E NAS,
> for example, can HBH NAS precede an select/I2E NAS due to RLD
> consideration? I don**’t recall the order of NASes with different scopes
> has been specified in the framework document or somewhere else. But clearly
> both the order and the parsing procedure need to be documented if it is no
> there yet. *
>
>
>
>
>
> 3.       Regarding the reserved bits in the MNA header (, one of the bits
> has been defined as the indicator of PSD by the PSD draft. But if the ISD
> draft says the reserved bits “MUST be transmitted as zero and ignored upon
> receipt”, it will make node unable to identify the existence of PSD in the
> packet. Since we have already considered that PSD would be needed, it would
> be better to move the definition of the PSD indicator flag to the ISD
> draft, so that we can have a relative stable MNA header format in one place.
>
>
>
>
> As discussed, if we choose to adopt the PSD draft, then it can ‘update’
> the ISD draft. This is not a conflict and is the normal way that we make
> use of reserved bits.
>
>
>
> *[Jie] The PSD draft specifies the detailed encoding of the PSD
> information, while whether PSD is needed or not as a part of the MNA
> solution is described in the framework draft. From this perspective we don**’t
> need to wait until the PSD draft gets adopted, as long as we know PSD would
> be there anyway, and an indicator for it in the NAS is needed. *
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jie
>
>
>
>
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>