Re: [mpls] For Review: Proposed Liaison Response to SG11

Hi, Adrian et al.,
I have a comment regarding the

Our current understanding of your requirements suggests that all or most of

your requirements can be addressed using existing IP/MPLS OAM tools, and

that no further protocol work is necessary.

in the proposed response. Although, technically, this is a correct
statement, the environment must be such that each P node is, in effect,
turned into a PE, or more accurately, super-PE, system for the proposed
extension to be useful. I am not suggesting that we go into these details,
but just to point out that inviting that discussion to the MPLS WG would
likely be concluded with Don't do that.

Regards,
Greg

On Sun, Mar 10, 2024 at 9:58 AM Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi Sasha,
>
>
>
> Thank you for your consideration. I share some of your experiences with
> T-MPLS and am consequently also concerned that any protocol work should be
> carried out in the IETF.
>
>
>
> But I am not sure that one SDO should tell another SDO that publication of
> their requirements document is unjustified. To some extent, I read Q.3962
> as indicating the deployment model that some operators want to follow, and
> you can’t argue with that.
>
>
>
> If the requirements can be met with existing tools, then I am sure that an
> “applicability statement” could be written in the IETF, and I am sure that
> the WG would be happy to help review the work. Obviously, no one should be
> under the illusion that they can commission a draft and have it written for
> them :-)
>
>
>
> If it turns out that the requirements cannot be met with existing tools,
> and that protocol extensions are needed, then (of course) the IETF is the
> place to do that, and the WG would clearly want to review the proposals
> before taking them through the usual IETF process.
>
>
>
> So perhaps we can strengthen this with…
>
> OLD
>
> Our current understanding of your requirements suggests that all or most of
>
> your requirements can be addressed using existing IP/MPLS OAM tools.
>
> NEW
>
> Our current understanding of your requirements suggests that all or most of
>
> your requirements can be addressed using existing IP/MPLS OAM tools, and
>
> that no further protocol work is necessary.
>
> END
>
>
>
> We also have s/lacunae/gaps/ from Loa.
>
>
>
> Further, if we **really** want to make the point clear we should change…
>
>
>
> OLD
>
> Obviously,
>
> should any gaps be discovered during this process, the working group
>
> would also be pleased to engage in additional protocol work to resolve any
>
>             issues.
>
> NEW
>
> Obviously,
>
> should any gaps be discovered during this process, the working group
>
> would also be pleased to engage in additional protocol work to resolve any
>
>             issues using the procedures described in RFC 4775 and RFC 4929.
>
> END
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Adrian
>
>
>
> *From:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@rbbn.com>
> *Sent:* 10 March 2024 11:45
> *To:* BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A <db3546@att.com>; adrian@olddog.co.uk
> *Cc:* mpls-ads@ietf.org; 'mpls' <mpls@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* RE: [mpls] For Review: Proposed Liaison Response to SG11
> *Importance:* High
>
>
>
> Adrian, Deborah and all,
>
> I may be somewhat biased about this issue based on experience with
> MPLS-TP, but maybe a slightly stronger language could be used in our
> response?
>
>
>
> Specifically, something like (proposed added text is highlighted):
>
> “Our current understanding of your requirements suggests that all or most of your requirements can be addressed using existing IP/MPLS OAM tools, so that it is not clear to the WG whether publication of Q.3962 in its present form is justified”.
>
>
>
> IMHO and FWIW this sits well with the proposal  to “all experts to bring these requirements to the IETF's MPLS working group with a view to working collaboratively on an Informational RFC that describes how to deliver the function you want to see”,
>
>
>
> My 2c,
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
> *From:* mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A
> *Sent:* Friday, March 8, 2024 6:10 PM
> *To:* adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'mpls' <mpls@ietf.org>
> *Cc:* mpls-ads@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [mpls] For Review: Proposed Liaison Response to
> SG11
>
>
>
> +1
>
>
>
> +1 on “soon” – SG11 will meet early May with contributions due Ap 18 – so
> hopefully with early receipt of this liaison, will help contributors on
> progressing their on-going work items.
>
>
>
> Deborah
>
>
>
> *From:* mpls <mpls-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Adrian Farrel
> *Sent:* Friday, March 8, 2024 10:37 AM
> *To:* 'mpls' <mpls@ietf.org>
> *Cc:* mpls-ads@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [mpls] For Review: Proposed Liaison Response to SG11
>
>
>
> Hi WG, You may have seen some back and forth on the list with respect to a
> liaison statement sent "For Information" to the OPSAWG by ITU-T Study Group
> 11. Watching the mailing list, your chairs thought it would be a good idea
> to send a response
>
>
>
> Hi WG,
>
>
>
> You may have seen some back and forth on the list with respect to a liaison
>
> statement sent "For Information" to the OPSAWG by ITU-T Study Group 11.
>
>
>
> Watching the mailing list, your chairs thought it would be a good idea to
>
> send a response even though one is not requested or required, and even
>
> though we were not the original recipients of the incoming liaison.
>
>
>
> Our draft is below. We would welcome any thoughts or edits.
>
>
>
> The intention is to send this "soon" so it would help if you could respond
>
> in a timely way.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adrian for the MPLS Chairs
>
>
>
> ===
>
>
>
> To: ITU-T-SG-11
>
> Cc: Denis Andreev <denis.andreev@itu.int>;
>
> Tatiana Kurakova <tatiana.kurakova@itu.int>;
>
> Scott Mansfield <Scott.Mansfield@Ericsson.com>;
>
> mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org; itu-t-liaison@iab.org
>
> Purpose: For Information
>
> In response to: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1869/__;!!BhdT!mWmi68uYSSy4-bpLL11L9uqhsLuDkHbkucLYYk0WXj5PQ_FU-tg_9Ro91YUsgXqwJsR2bvQBWxreFnPg$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1869/__;!!BhdT!mWmi68uYSSy4-bpLL11L9uqhsLuDkHbkucLYYk0WXj5PQ_FU-tg_9Ro91YUsgXqwJsR2bvQBWxreFnPg$>
>
> Subject: Response to your Liaison Statement - LS on the consent of draft
>
> Recommendation ITU-T Q.3962 (ex. Q.joint_tr) "Requirements and Reference
>
> Model for optimized traceroute of joint Internet Protocol/Multi-Protocol
>
> Label Switching"
>
>
>
> Body:
>
>
>
> Thank you for your Liaison Statement - LS on the consent of draft
>
> Recommendation ITU-T Q.3962 (ex. Q.joint_tr) "Requirements and Reference
>
> Model for optimized traceroute of joint Internet Protocol/Multi-Protocol
>
> Label Switching" dated 2023-10-24. This has been passed on to the MPLS
>
> working group for consideration.
>
>
>
> The MPLS working group would like to thank you for sharing your requirements
>
> as expressed in Q.3962.
>
>
>
> Our current understanding of your requirements suggests that all or most of
>
> your requirements can be addressed using existing IP/MPLS OAM tools.
>
>
>
> We would welcome all experts to bring these requirements to the IETF's MPLS
>
> working group with a view to working collaboratively on an Informational RFC
>
> that describes how to deliver the function you want to see. Obviously,
>
> should any lacunae be discovered during this process, the working group
>
> would also be pleased to engage in additional protocol work to resolve any
>
> issues.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Adrian Farrel MPLS Working Group Co-Chair
>
> On behalf of the MPLS Working Group and Co-Chairs
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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