Re: [mpls] Expected report on solutions drafts

[Tianran Zhou <[e-mail]>]

Hi Greg,

Thanks. It’s clear to me now.
I agree on one NAI to indicate all methods.

So my understanding is this will not block the adoption and processing of the mpls extension header draft.

Cheers,
Tianran

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发件人： Greg Mirsky<[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
收件人： Tianran Zhou<[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
抄送： Haoyu Song<[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>;mpls<[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>;DetNet Chairs<[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>;pals-chairs<[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>;mpls-chairs<[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
主题： Re: [mpls] Expected report on solutions drafts
时间： 2022-10-06 08:33:25

Hi Tianran,
thank you for your question, it will help to move the discussion forward.
I don't think that the number of drafts that describe the MAN solution is that important - one, two, or three can cover the single MNA solution the WGs agree on. What I feel strongly about is that ISD encoding and PSD encoding that are parts of the standardized MNA solution must share the same NAIs (indicators) method.
What are your thoughts on this?

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 11:22 PM Tianran Zhou <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Hi Greg,

Could you please explain what’s the one solution mean compared with three solutions?
I think we all agree there will be isd, psd, and no data.
Do you mean only one draft when you say one solution?

Best,
Tianran




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发件人： Greg Mirsky<[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
收件人： Haoyu Song<[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
抄送： mpls<[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>;DetNet Chairs<[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>;pals-chairs<[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>;mpls-chairs<[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
主题： Re: [mpls] Expected report on solutions drafts
时间： 2022-10-05 07:11:40

Hi Haoyu,
thank you for your quick response to my note. Perhaps I was not clear in expressing myself. I believe in and support us in producing one solution that can support all three types of ancillary data. Not three, not two that support a subset of behaviors, e.g., no-data and ISD or no-data and PSD, but one. I hope that makes my position clear.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 4:00 PM Haoyu Song <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Hi Greg,

I think there’s some misunderstanding here. As you said, “MNA solution must support no-data, in-stack, and post-stack MNA types”, so we need and have schemes for in-stack encoding and for post-stack encoding. Ultimately, we should end up with just one in-stack encoding scheme and one post-stack encoding scheme as standard. So the comparison should be among the in-stack encoding schemes and among the post-stack encoding schemes, but not between an in-stack scheme and an post-stack scheme (this is like trying to compare apple to orange) . Do you agree with this reasoning?

On the other hand, given a use case, it’s subject to study to decide if it should use in-stack encoding or use post-stack encoding. This is an issue in another dimension and something that should be considered when proposing any MNA use case.

Best regards,
Haoyu

From: Greg Mirsky <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2022 1:31 PM
To: Haoyu Song <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: Loa Andersson <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; DetNet Chairs <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Expected report on solutions drafts

Hi Haoyu,
I have some doubts about your first statement:
1. Comparative evaluation are only needed for proposals in the same category addressing the same use cases, and there is no need to compare proposals between ISD, PSD, and control plane because they address different use cases.
I imagine that we (Open DT and, in general, all WGs that chartered it) are interested in finding the solution for the MNA problem as it is formulated in Framework and Requirements drafts (the Use Cases is the source for mental testing, verification of the validity of a solution). And, as it appears to me, we've agreed that an MNA solution must support no-data, in-stack, and post-stack MNA types. If that is the case, I think that we should compare proposals regardless of what options they support as a solution to the MNA problem based on the agreement we've reached.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 9:01 AM Haoyu Song <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Hi Loa,

Some comments on this action item:
1. Comparative evaluation are only needed for proposals in the same category addressing the same use cases, and there is no need to compare proposals between ISD, PSD, and control plane because they address different use cases.
2. Within the same category, the evaluation may be needed if there are multiple competing proposals. This needs to be confirmed with the authors if they want to continue progressing their draft independently. If there is already a consolidation process, such evaluation is again unnecessary.
3. For the metrics, I have proposed some of them before. They are parser size, parsing latency, and overhead. More can be proposed, such as flexibility, extensibility, etc.

Thanks,
Haoyu

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
Sent: Monday, October 3, 2022 1:07 AM
To: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; DetNet Chairs <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: [mpls] Expected report on solutions drafts


Open DT,

We have an action item:

   "AI (solution authors): evaluating competing proposals against
    metrics:
    NVO3 WG has some precedence on this
    complying to requirements and framework document is prerequisite.
    On pause till after the poll (sept 19th).

    Update (09/22): MPLS Open DT Chairs assigned the action item on the
    solution authors.
    Update (09/29): No update from authors of documents (see
    MNADocumnets). Loa will send out an email."

As you can see nothing much has happened; other than there have been some vague reporting on ongoing meetings, but no exact information.

The authors we expect to report are the authors of the documents found in section 4 of the wiki entry at at:

https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftrac.ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fmpls%2Fwiki%2FMNADocumnets&amp;data=05%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C2e764116f38540eab34808daa5165b17%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C638003812727268754%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=0XuH%2BPm7dZowg4U2b5kVfgGJKHRFMZG5%2BRKHtoZ9tJo%3D&amp;reserved=0<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftrac.ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fmpls%2Fwiki%2FMNADocumnets&data=05%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C0650227129da4cfd98b008daa647545a%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C638005122538571689%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FQoi%2FB1lne3ZmwXMJkbIOqIxZuddS5DCrY%2B6LOhVsLY%3D&reserved=0>

Though we understand that at some points authors of applications (listed in section 5 of the dame wiki entry) may need to be involved.

Post-Stack Ancillary data
=========================
The following are based on MPLS Extension headers and PSD

1. draft-andersson-mpls-eh-architecture
    -- MPLS Extension Header Architecture 2. draft-andersson-mpls-eh-label-stack-operations
    -- MPLS Label Operations in MPLS EH capable networks 3. draft-song-mpls-eh-indicator
    -- Options for MPLS Extension Header Indicator 4. draft-song-mpls-extension-header
    -- MPLS Extension Header

In-stack Ancillary Data (ISD)
=============================
The following are based on the use of in-stack data

5. draft-kompella-mpls-mspl4fa
    -- Multi-purpose Special Purpose Label for Forwarding Actions
       Note: This is a mixture of ISD solution and application, and
       maybe progressed as two drafts
6. draft-liu-mpls-nas-combination
    -- Combination Method of NASs
7. draft-jags-mpls-mna-hdr
    -- MPLS Network Action (MNA) Header Encodings 8. draft-dong-mpls-mna-encaps
    -- General solution of encapsulating MNA information as either
       ISD or PSD.

Control Plane
=============
The following relies on the use of the control plane - this contrasts with the other proposals which are currently pure data plane

9. draft-raszuk-mpls-raf-fwk
    - Framework of MPLS Reference Augmented Forwarding

If you have other drafts that you think should be included in this list please let us know.

Looking forward to your reports, first chance will be 2022-10-06, if you are ready to report please tell co-chairs.

/Loa
for the MNA co-chairs


--
Loa Andersson                        email: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Senior MPLS Expert                          [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: [phone]

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