[mpowr] bookkeeping

Harald,

>> Except that most of the formative BOFs that I've been to in the last few
>> years have had little or no prior activity.

HTA> Dave, at the risk of beating an old, tired drum once again:
HTA> Can you name some of these BOFs, so that we can check whether all of us 
HTA> have the same perception of whether there was prior activity?

No.

It would distract from the discussion.

However your query highlights a basic difference in views about
discussing and resolving strategic issues in the IETF.

Either there is rough consensus that we have a problem with working
groups and BOFs that are unproductive, or we don't. If we don't, then
let's move on. I'll shut up. If we do have rough consensus about this,
then we do not need to cite statistics.

Let me repeat:  If there is rough consensus that BOF time is generally
well spent, then everyone should please ignore my suggestion.

On the other hand, if there is rough consensus that BOF time is too
often wasted or, at least, inefficient, then we can focus on the nature
of my suggestions rather than on bookeeping.

Similarly, there is a basic difference in views, between "empowering"
groups to self-form and demonstrate capabilities, versus tasking
volunteer management with "fixing" those groups that lack the
capabilities.

If there is rough consensus that IETF management fixes things well, then
again, ignore my suggestion and let's move on.

If there is rough consensus that problematic working groups do not get
fixed all that well and do constitute a problem, then let's talk about
solutions.

One solution is to expect IETF management to do a better job of fixing
things, or of generally "managing" things better.

Another is to look for ways to prevent the problems in the first place,
or at least to move the problems to be outside the IETF.

HTA> But the point I was trying to make was a completely different one - that we
HTA> make BOFs for many reasons. For some types of BOFs, it's appropriate to ask 
HTA> for prior activity on a mailing list.

That's nice.  My own focus has been on pre-chartering BOFs.

HTA>  or we have to trust someone's judgment on when to require
HTA> proof of prior activity.

HTA> Which one is the best use of resources?

That sounds like the status quo.  Forgive me, but I thought that that
was not working very well.  As in, it has not been working at all.  So
why will it work in the future>?

Rather than trivialize this as a labeling excercise, I suggest we look
at real problems and pursue real solutions.

"Trust someone's judgement" has not been working. I believe we have
community consensus on this point. That means we need to look for
changes to make.

If you are suggesting a change, I'm not understanding what it is.

d/
--
 Dave Crocker <dcrocker-at-brandenburg-dot-com>
 Brandenburg InternetWorking <www.brandenburg.com>
 Sunnyvale, CA  USA <tel:+1.408.246.8253>

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