Re: [netlmm] FW: I-D Action:draft-ietf-netlmm-lma-discovery-04.txt

["Soininen, Jonne (NSN-FI/Espoo)" <[e-mail]>]

Hi Frank,

I really hope that other people would talk to this point. It seems that we
have one person pushing for a technology and complaining me having a bias on
this topic.

For the record, yes, the author of this document does work for the same
company as I do. Yes, this is a possible conflict of interest. However, we
are not talking about pushing a document that would be "my employer's
draft". We have a working group document, which we - as the WG - would like
to get finished.

Frank and Behcet, you have proposed additions to the WG document. However,
as far as I can see, it is just you. There are no other people active in
this discussion. Nobody is voicing their support for your proposal.

If other people are, I hope they feel free to comment. Only way to measure
support in the IETF is by seeing who speaks up. I know that both of you
state that there would be support that people have indicated to you
privately. Maybe you can encourage them to become public on the list.

I think we should stop discussing the administrative issue here. Frank, and
Behcet, if you have an objection or concerns to the process of this WG,
or/and my impartiality as a chair, I hope you know you can always complain
to Jari and bring this issues up with him.

However, as my impartiality has been put under question, I think the
cleanest thing is to have Vidya to take care of this draft now that she is
back at work. Just for the record, I only started this WGLC because Vidya
wasn't back from her leave at that time.

Vidya, is this ok with you?

Cheers,

Jonne.


On 6/1/10 11:14 PM, "ext Frank Xia" <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Hi Jonne
> 
> Please see my inlines.
> 
> I am also waiting for others who are from the
> WG members, Ads, or IESG to comment technically.
> 
> BR
> Frank
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Soininen, Jonne (NSN-FI/Espoo) [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 3:16 AM
> To: ext Frank Xia; [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [netlmm] FW: I-D Action:draft-ietf-netlmm-lma-discovery-04.txt
> 
> Hi Frank,
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/1/10 6:53 AM, "ext Frank Xia" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Jonne
>> 
>> I would like to stop debating this with you
>> because it seems that you won't try to solve the
>> problem in a constructive way.
> 
> Sorry, I think I've given you a way to push your scenario: Get support.
> However, you have not been able to get it. As soon as you get support for
> your scenario there most probably will be more discussion.
> 
> Perhaps, it is just not the right time for DHCP based LMA discovery. You
> always have the time to post your draft to netext and try get it forward
> there independently of the current draft.
> 
> Frank=>When we discussed in NETEXT, you asked us to come back to NETLMM.
> Now you would like to separate them. Please don't give people wrong
> impression which is that you are pushing your own company's document
> whatever ways you take :-)
> 
>> 
>> However, I would like to post the following
>> arguments later so that relevant people would
>> have some technical comments eventually.
>> 
>> As for "Automatic LMA discovery" WG item, Netlmm
>> charter says " This will define the ability for MAGs
>> to automatically discover and use an LMA within a
>> PMIPv6 domain. The scope of this effort may include
>> specifying the use of DNS or DHCP based LMA discovery
>> or LMA discovery using policy information retrieved
>> via AAA protocols"
>> 
>> DHCP solution is valuable for the scenario that
>> LMA and HA are collocated (e.g. in 3GPP/WiMAX),
>> and LMA/HA availability information is  stored
>> in a DHCP server( 3GPP 24.303  "Home agent
>> address discovery based on DHCPv6").
> 
> Just to put the record straight here: 3GPP does not use, and is currently
> not planning to use DHCP for LMA discovery.
> Frank=>What about DNS for LMA discovery?
> Probably this is the missing part, and we are going to bring it up.
> 
> It does not fit the architecture, and has no purpose in 3GPP system.
> Frank=>Probably you are too confident when you say these.
> 3GPP system has been evolving to solve real problems and
> accommodate new requirements. By the way, I just illustrated
> a general scenario which 3GPP is only one possible network.
> 
> Maybe you should take a look at the 3GPP specs on SAE bearer establishment,
> and you'll notice your mistake on this.
> Frank=>Maybe you just point out what's wrong with the scenario which
> is simple so that every one can make a judgement even without 3GPP
> background.
> I prefer not debating 3GPP architectural issue here
> 
> DHCP does fit for HA discovery, when the HA is local to the network where
> the MN comes up. 
> Frank=>HA/LMA can be local or remote, and our proposal is consistent with
> solution which is specified in " DHCP Options for Home Information
> Discovery in MIPv6 "(draft-ietf-mip6-hiopt-17.txt).
> 
> However, setting up infrastructure elements (MAGs) is a bit
> different.
> Frank=>Could you make it more specific?
> 
>> 
>> The chairs try to exclude DHCP solution from the
>> chartered WG item without soliciting enough
>> technical comments.
> 
> Frank, this topic has been up now for a very long time. You have not been
> able to demonstrate any support for your point of view. Please, find the
> people to support your point of view - with technical arguments.
> 
> Frank=> IMO, silence does not mean opposition. However, you are the
> chair who is responsible for the quality of the deliverable
> of the WG.  No offense, as a chair, your strong negative technical
> comments are not encouraging open discussion  :-).
> 
> This is the only thing you have to do.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jonne.
> 
>> 
>> BR
>> Frank
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Soininen, Jonne (NSN-FI/Espoo) [mailto:[e-mail]]
>> Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 5:20 AM
>> To: ext Frank Xia; [e-mail]
>> Subject: Re: [netlmm] FW: I-D
> Action:draft-ietf-netlmm-lma-discovery-04.txt
>> 
>> Hi Frank,
>> 
>> 
>> On 5/27/10 6:12 PM, "ext Frank Xia" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Jonne
>>> 
>>> Could you stop pushing this without solving
>>> the existing problems?
>> 
>> I don't really understand what problems you are referring to. I know that
>> there is a scenario that you have been pushing, but has not got any
> support
>> on the list.
>> 
>>> 
>>> If you can not find a way, here is my suggestion:
>>> You can ask some experts except you chairs and authors
>>> in the WG to review the DHCP scenarios that I posted,
>>> and send their comments in the mailing list.
>> 
>> This is the last-call of a WG document. I've seen that you have tried to
>> rally support for your scenarios. Everybody who thinks that this scenario
> is
>> missing from the document can comment on the last call and ask it to be
>> added. Then we can have a debate about it - if needed.
>> 
>> However, only you have been supporting your own proposal. Nobody else has
>> written any supportive comments.
>> 
>> I assure you that the WG is open to comments to this document. However, if
>> there are none. There is nothing to consider.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Jonne.
>> 
>>> 
>>> BR
>>> Frank
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf
>> Of
>>> Soininen, Jonne (NSN-FI/Espoo)
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:11 AM
>>> To: [e-mail]
>>> Subject: [netlmm] FW: I-D Action:draft-ietf-netlmm-lma-discovery-04.txt
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> Jouni has published a new version of the LMA discovery document. Please,
>>> take a look to see if this version is acceptable for publishing as an
> RFC.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Jonne.
>>> ------ Forwarded Message
>>>> From: "ext [e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
>>>> Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
>>>> Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 08:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
>>>> To: <[e-mail]>
>>>> Cc: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
>>>> Subject: I-D Action:draft-ietf-netlmm-lma-discovery-04.txt
>>>> 
>>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>>>> directories.
>>>> This draft is a work item of the Network-based Localized Mobility
>>> Management
>>>> Working Group of the IETF.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Title           : LMA Discovery for Proxy Mobile IPv6
>>>> Author(s)       : J. Korhonen, V. Devarapalli
>>>> Filename        : draft-ietf-netlmm-lma-discovery-04.txt
>>>> Pages           : 10
>>>> Date            : 2010-05-24
>>>> 
>>>> Large Proxy Mobile IPv6 deployments would benefit from a
>>>> functionality, where a Mobile Access Gateway could dynamically
>>>> discover a Local Mobility Anchor for a Mobile Node attaching to a
>>>> Proxy Mobile IPv6 domain.  The purpose of the dynamic discovery
>>>> functionality is to reduce the amount of static configuration in the
>>>> Mobile Access Gateway.  This document describes several possible
>>>> dynamic Local Mobility Anchor discovery solutions.
>>>> 
>>>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>>>> 
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-netlmm-lma-discovery-04.txt
>>>> 
>>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>>> 
>>>> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
>>>> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
>>>> Internet-Draft.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> I-D-Announce mailing list
>>>> [e-mail]
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
>>>> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
>>>> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>>> 
>>> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>