Re: [netmod] Draft IETF 119 NETMOD Agenda posted

["maqiufang (A)" <[e-mail]>]

Hi, Jan, all

It seems that we need to revisit what we have agreed at the interim. Please see my reply below inline.
From: Jan Lindblad (jlindbla) [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2024 1:03 AM
To: Kent Watsen <[e-mail]>
Cc: maqiufang (A) <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [netmod] Draft IETF 119 NETMOD Agenda posted

Kent,

Hi Jan, you attended the Interim on Jan 23, and didn’t object to the Minutes [1] that say:

     The consensus in the room was a new "Option 4" - i.e., this
     document doesn't say anything at all about the validity of
     <running>.  That is, fully rely on existing 7950 and 8342
     statements.  This leaves it up to interpretation.

Has something changed since then?

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-interim-2024-netmod-01-202401231400/

Thanks for keeping me honest :-) Nothing has changed, and if everyone agrees that 7950 and 8342 language prevail (i.e. running always valid as well as intended always valid), I'm probably ok. I wasn't sure that was the case? But if we all agree with this, maybe stating just that wouldn't be a bad thing? Just so that this is perfectly clear now and in the future.
[Qiufang] I think what has already been stated in 7950 and 8342 is still the case now, and this draft is not going to change it or make any updates about this point. So we won’t repeat what has already been said in other RFCs, and thus rely on 7950 and 8342 at this point. Is there any issue you see with this handling?
I am not sure what is stated in 8342 now is perfectly clear, at the interim we had on Jan 23, I (and also other folks) suggested we may need to update 8342 to make some clarifications on the point of validity of <running> alone, and we agreed to hold this as a YANG-next issue and discuss it till later. This makes sense to me, as I think it is a fundamental but separate issue and really not specific to system config. Thoughts?
I'm not against discussing changes in this area, as long as the fundamental values of YANG are preserved and our mechanisms are clearly defined.
[Qiufang] Sure, see my comments above. I am not sure what the discussion would end up with when we come to yang-next, but I absolutely agree with you fundamental values of NC/YANG should never be broken.

Best Regards,
/jan

Best Regards,
Qiufang
On Mar 12, 2024, at 12:15 PM, Jan Lindblad (jlindbla) <jlindbla=[e-mail]<mailto:jlindbla=[e-mail]>> wrote:

Qiufang,

I'm sorry to say I'm strongly against WGLC at this time because of point #2 below.

One of the great contributions to network automation that YANG has brought is that clients now have a fair chance at computing a desired configuration change for a network element. Maybe we need to develop a more elaborate model for configuration consistency relative today's "The running configuration datastore MUST always be valid", but have I trouble with us stirring up multiple interpretations and then staying silent. That's not the way to build interoperability.

           IMO we need to sort out what the rules are before we come close to WGLC, or else the grief outweighs the gain.

Best Regards,
/jan


On 12 Mar 2024, at 03:44, maqiufang (A) <maqiufang1=[e-mail]<mailto:maqiufang1=[e-mail]>> wrote:

Hi, chairs,

For system-config draft (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-system-config/), the authors have submitted a new version to reflect the outcome of the interim, the main updates are following:
1.      Address the "origin" issue
a.       The current document explicitly states that system configuration copied from <system> into <running> have its origin value being reported as "intended" and update the examples accordingly
b.      Also, update the definition of "intended" origin identity in 8342 to allow a subset of configuration in <intended> to use "system" as origin value
c.       The current document states data migration is out-of-scope except that gives a couple of implementation examples in section 4.2 (please feel free to propose text if you have better suggestion)
2.      validity of <running> alone
a.       The current document is silent on this point. Related statements which requires referenced system nodes must be copied into <running> are removed.
3.      Other updates
a.       Usage examples refinement, e.g., fix validation errors, remove redundancy for conciseness

There is currently no open issues, thus the authors believe this draft is ready for WGLC, but this might be worth a broad review on the mailing list.

Best Regards,
Qiufang
From: netmod [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Lou Berger
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2024 9:44 PM
To: NETMOD WG <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [netmod] Draft IETF 119 NETMOD Agenda posted


**IMPORTANT**

Authors of WG documents,

If your document has not yet been submitted to the IESG for publication *and* your draft is not on the agenda, please either:
(a) request to present status or
(b) send email to the list summarizing status by end of day (any TZ) Friday, March 15.

In either case, please include recent changes, open issues, plan to resolve open issues/complete the document.

Thank you!

Lou (and Kent)
On 3/7/2024 3:53 PM, Jason Sterne (Nokia) wrote:
Hello NETMOD WG,

A draft NETMOD agenda for IETF 119 has been published. Please review and let the chairs know if any changes are needed or additional topics should be covered.

The agenda is pasted below, but here's the link to the always-current version: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/119/materials/agenda-119-netmod

Presenters: please provide slides to [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> no later than Sunday March 17 (any time zone).

Thanks,
Jason (+ chairs Kent and Lou)

Draft Agenda for the NETMOD 119 WG Session

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/119/materials/agenda-119-netmod
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/119/session/netmod

Session:

Thursday, March 21, 2024
13:00-15:00 Brisbane (Australia - Eastern Time)
03:00-05:00 UTC
23:00-01:00 Wednesday March 20 America - Eastern Time
https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html?iso=20240321T030000&p1=47

Room: M2 https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/119/floor-plan?room=m2

WG Chairs:

Lou Berger (lberger at labs dot net)
Kent Watsen (kent plus ietf at watsen dot net)

WG Secretary

Jason Sterne (jason dot sterne at nokia dot com)

Available During Session:

MeetEcho: https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/ietf119/?session=31987
Onsite tool: https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/onsite119/?session=31987
Audio Only: https://mp3.conf.meetecho.com/ietf119/31987.m3u

Available During and After Session:

Notes: https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-119-netmod?both
Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/119/session/netmod
Zulip (chat): https://zulip.ietf.org/#narrow/stream/126-netmod/topic/ietf-119
Drafts (TGZ): https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/119/agenda/netmod-drafts.tgz
Drafts (PDF): https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/119/agenda/netmod-drafts.pdf
Datatracker: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/netmod/about/
ICS: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/119/session/31987.ics

Available After Session:

Recording: http://www.meetecho.com/ietf119/recordings#NETMOD
Jabber Logs: https://www.ietf.org/jabber/logs/netmod

1) Session Intro & WG Status (10 min)

Presenter: Chairs

Chartered items:
2) YANG Versioning Update (40 min)

Presenter: Rob Wilton and Joe Clarke
Draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-11
Draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-14

Non-Chartered items:
3) Validating anydata in YANG Library context (10 min)

Presenter: Ahmed Elhassany
Draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-aelhassany-anydata-validation-00

4) Philatelist and YANG time-series db (10 min)

Presenter: Jan Lindblad
Draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lindblad-tlm-philatelist-00
Draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kll-yang-label-tsdb-00

5) A YANG model for Device Power Management (10 min)

Presenter: Tony Li
Draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-ivy-power-01

6) YANG Full Embed (10 min)

Presenter: Jean Quilbeuf or Benoir Claise
Draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jouqui-netmod-yang-full-include-01

7) Applying COSE Signatures for YANG Data Provenance (10 min)

Presenter: Diego R. Lopez
Draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lopez-opsawg-yang-provenance-02

Unallocated time: 20 min


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