[Ntp] Antw: Re: Call for adoption: draft-schiff-ntp-chronos
"Ulrich Windl" <Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de> Tue, 03 September 2019 08:15 UTC
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Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2019 10:15:05 +0200
From: Ulrich Windl <Ulrich.Windl@rz.uni-regensburg.de>
To: Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>
Cc: "ntp@ietf.org" <ntp@ietf.org>
References: <599D739B-4E2B-4C4F-B265-10DA277DC4FA@isoc.org> <20190902115915.GE15024@localhost> <CAM-HxCOe1=Jn4g=p+Uj9QvzNwCq7hxZJS23Sp-hJb=MA6uNoGg@mail.gmail.com> <651c7da3-33a3-aecd-c7a7-8f1c4ec05e9a@nwtime.org> <CABUE3X=JNgijs78WUnDDexkBezKrR+Tkrf=YaWk3P8nUDOShrA@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: [Ntp] Antw: Re: Call for adoption: draft-schiff-ntp-chronos
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>>> Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com> schrieb am 03.09.2019 um 09:34 in Nachricht <CABUE3X=JNgijs78WUnDDexkBezKrR+Tkrf=YaWk3P8nUDOShrA@mail.gmail.com>: > Hi Harlan, > > Thanks for the feedback. > >>I am opposed to the adoption of this draft as anything other than an >>experimental proposal. > > The difference between Informational and Experimental is a bit subtle, > e.g., "Experimental" is usually defined for a limited period of time. > However, Informational and Experimental are 'on the same level' in terms of > importance. Hi! I don't know the IETF criteria, but I'd say "experimental" is "something ongoing, not finished with uncertain end" while "informational" is "something completed, not defining any standard or proposal of a standard". Regards, Ulrich > > It is important to emphasize that the intended status of the current draft > is not "Standards Track", and it is not intended to "update" RFC 5905. > Chronos is defined as a client algorithm that does not affect NTP servers > or non-Chronos clients, so there is no interoperability issues with > existing implementations of NTP. That is why we see it as "Informational", > as it does not change the protocol, and an implementation may choose to > implement Chronos or not to implement it, without affecting other > implementations. > > Anyway, I believe this is not a big issue, and can probably be resolved > with the WG chairs. > > Thanks, > Tal. > > > > On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 3:55 PM Harlan Stenn <stenn@nwtime.org> wrote: > >> I am opposed to the adoption of this draft as anything other than an >> experimental proposal. >> >> On 9/2/2019 5:49 AM, Neta R S wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > Chronos has a provable security guarantees compared to the current >> > NTPv4, even when facing MitM attacker. >> >> What *exactly* are these provable security guarantees? >> >> I suspect people are drawing incorrect inferences from "provable >> security guarantees". >> >> H >> -- >> > Thus, we suggested Chronos as NTPv4 watchdog and named the draft >> > accordingly. >> > We'll consider your comment regarding the draft's name, but in the worse >> > case (where the MitM controls the client's gateway) I am not sure there >> > is a solution. >> > >> > Regarding Daniel's and Kristof's comments, we agree that experimental >> > might be a more appropriate intended status. >> > >> > Best, >> > Neta >> > >> > On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 2:59 PM Miroslav Lichvar <mlichvar@redhat.com >> > <mailto:mlichvar@redhat.com>> wrote: >> > >> > On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 05:37:10AM +0000, Karen O'Donoghue wrote: >> > > A Secure Selection and Filtering Mechanism for the Network Time >> > Protocol Version 4 >> > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-schiff-ntp-chronos/ >> > > >> > > Please reply with your opinion on whether or not the working group >> > should adopt this document including your willingness to review and >> > contribute.. >> > >> > I support adoption of this draft. I would like the group to consider >> > using a slightly different title and more careful use of the word >> > "secure" in the document. The algorithms improve resiliency against >> > some MITM attacks, but in the worst case security doesn't change. >> > >> > -- >> > Miroslav Lichvar >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > ntp mailing list >> > ntp@ietf.org <mailto:ntp@ietf.org> >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > ntp mailing list >> > ntp@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp >> > >> >> -- >> Harlan Stenn, Network Time Foundation >> http://nwtime.org - be a Member! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ntp mailing list >> ntp@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp >>
- [Ntp] Call for adoption: draft-schiff-ntp-chronos Karen O'Donoghue
- Re: [Ntp] Call for adoption: draft-schiff-ntp-chr… Daniel Franke
- Re: [Ntp] Call for adoption: draft-schiff-ntp-chr… kristof.teichel
- Re: [Ntp] Call for adoption: draft-schiff-ntp-chr… Miroslav Lichvar
- Re: [Ntp] Call for adoption: draft-schiff-ntp-chr… Neta R S
- Re: [Ntp] Call for adoption: draft-schiff-ntp-chr… Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] Call for adoption: draft-schiff-ntp-chr… Neta R S
- Re: [Ntp] Call for adoption: draft-schiff-ntp-chr… Harlan Stenn
- Re: [Ntp] Call for adoption: draft-schiff-ntp-chr… Marcus Dansarie
- Re: [Ntp] Call for adoption: draft-schiff-ntp-chr… Tal Mizrahi
- [Ntp] Antw: Re: Call for adoption: draft-schiff-n… Ulrich Windl