Re: [nvo3] Carrying entropy, was: draft-ietf-nvo3-encap-00 should add considerations of traversing NAPT

worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Sat, 15 July 2017 02:11 UTC

Return-Path: <worley@alum.mit.edu>
X-Original-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A080E12EB4E for <nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 19:11:30 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.933
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.933 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uezmc8bwaH2x for <nvo3@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 19:11:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from resqmta-ch2-04v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-04v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0D9E126C25 for <nvo3@ietf.org>; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 19:11:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from resomta-ch2-18v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.114]) by resqmta-ch2-04v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id WCY2dntq34QqNWCYKdzOuO; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 02:11:28 +0000
Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([IPv6:2601:192:4603:9471:222:fbff:fe91:d396]) by resomta-ch2-18v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id WCYIdUxdsUCBoWCYJdqh4M; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 02:11:28 +0000
Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id v6F2BQ0N001085; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 22:11:26 -0400
Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id v6F2BQUj001082; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 22:11:26 -0400
X-Authentication-Warning: hobgoblin.ariadne.com: worley set sender to worley@alum.mit.edu using -f
From: worley@ariadne.com
To: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
Cc: nvo3@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: <7aa5c707-8047-be7e-b9b6-b9c10a942bb3@isi.edu> (touch@isi.edu)
Sender: worley@ariadne.com
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 22:11:25 -0400
Message-ID: <87y3rq1mb6.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com>
X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfFMxd6ogBhI8+qfrr9vQPJfRmWNTb08kOhlrmvp+5xtMCgNVPKCOwe8Q8WkWtBP2qtQXTPd5N5+GXiLPGm0yw1fiX1XGeoeSkrnKOv47L0+IU+jx3qWx m2A5vSmdUBL3YcuMJCP8uucNPPtEgRB/EWwKCM8Mvq1zVw1QRwE9XjTUIjUosY9XvG4OqT9TrenswQ==
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nvo3/CH_ZTPEZ0pFJaw8pzOBdL6ekGdE>
Subject: Re: [nvo3] Carrying entropy, was: draft-ietf-nvo3-encap-00 should add considerations of traversing NAPT
X-BeenThere: nvo3@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Network Virtualization Overlays \(NVO3\) Working Group" <nvo3.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/nvo3>, <mailto:nvo3-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/nvo3/>
List-Post: <mailto:nvo3@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:nvo3-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3>, <mailto:nvo3-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 02:11:31 -0000

Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> writes:
> Even a NVI isn't really flow information, so might not have any
> bearing on whether a set of packets (with the same NVI) should maintain
> their relative order.

Well, the definition of "flow information" is not in the positive
sense -- if the value is the same between two packets, their order must
be maintained -- but rather in the negative sense -- if the value is
*different* between two packets, their order *need not* be maintained.
That causes devices to behave conservatively, in that they are allowed
to reorder packets only if they have specific knowledge that the packets
are "in different flows".  From that point of view, if a device knows
that a certain field is an NVI, then it can treat that field as flow
information.

Dale