Re: [nvo3] call for adoption: draft-lasserre-nvo3-framework-02

[<[e-mail]>]

Hi,

David Allan I :
> "learning" is required when the thing to be learned is not administered and there is some form of trust model to auto-configure the learner. The L2 example being MAC addresses. I'm really struggling to understand what CP learning for L3 is. It is usually the other way around, the host needs to learn it's L3 identity via DHCP or whatever...The CP knows.

I agree that we should try to avoid "learning" in the context of L3.

-Thomas



> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of LASSERRE, MARC (MARC)
> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 9:29 AM
> To: NAPIERALA, MARIA H; Luyuan Fang (lufang); Pedro Roque Marques; <[e-mail]>
> Cc: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [nvo3] call for adoption: draft-lasserre-nvo3-framework-02
>
> Maria, all,
>
> I suggest adding the first sentence in section 4.2.1 (see below) for clarification.
>
> 4.2.1. Data plane vs Control plane driven
>
> Data plane learning is applicable to L2 whereas control plane learning is applicable to both L2 and L3.
> Control plane learning does not require dynamic data plane learning.
>
> Data plane learning implies that flooding of unknown destinations be supported and hence implies that broadcast and/or multicast be supported. Multicasting in the core network for dynamic learning may lead to significant scalability limitations. Specific forwarding rules must be enforced to prevent loops from happening. This can be achieved using a spanning tree, a shortest path tree, or a split-horizon mesh.
>
> It should be noted that the amount of state to be distributed is a function of the number of virtual machines. Different forms of caching can also be utilized to minimize state distribution between the various elements.
>
> -Marc
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf
>> Of NAPIERALA, MARIA H
>> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 6:13 PM
>> To: Luyuan Fang (lufang); LASSERRE, MARC (MARC); Pedro Roque Marques;
>> <[e-mail]>
>> Cc: [e-mail]
>> Subject: Re: [nvo3] call for adoption:
>> draft-lasserre-nvo3-framework-02
>>
>> Marc,
>>
>> Yes, this sentence is much more general and not excluding
>> control-plane only solutions. You might clarify it more by stating
>> that control plane only solutions with no data plane learning are also
>> possible (as Luyuan suggested).
>>
>> Maria
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Luyuan Fang (lufang) [mailto:[e-mail]]
>>> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 11:58 AM
>>> To: LASSERRE, MARC (MARC); NAPIERALA, MARIA H; Pedro Roque Marques;
>>> <[e-mail]>
>>> Cc: [e-mail]
>>> Subject: RE: [nvo3] call for adoption:
>>> draft-lasserre-nvo3-framework-02
>>>
>>> Marc,
>>>
>>> The sentence is correct, but I think you should clarify when data
>>> planning learning is applicable, when it is not, e.g. if all L3
>>> solutions...
>>> Luyuan
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [e-mail]
>> [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf
>>> Of
>>>> LASSERRE, MARC (MARC)
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 9:04 AM
>>>> To: NAPIERALA, MARIA H; Pedro Roque Marques; <[e-mail]>
>>>> Cc: [e-mail]
>>>> Subject: Re: [nvo3] call for adoption:
>>>> draft-lasserre-nvo3-framework-
>>> 02
>>>> Maria,
>>>>
>>>> What about the following rewording?
>>>>
>>>> "A combination of data plane and control plane based
>> learning may be
>>>> applicable."
>>>>
>>>> Marc
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On
>>>>> Behalf Of NAPIERALA, MARIA H
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 2:18 AM
>>>>> To: Pedro Roque Marques; <[e-mail]>
>>>>> Cc: [e-mail]
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvo3] call for adoption:
>>>>> draft-lasserre-nvo3-framework-02
>>>>>
>>>>>>> As has been pointed out a number of times, pure data
>>>>> plane learning
>>>>>> leads
>>>>>>> to a lot of BUM traffic flooding, so a combination of
>>>>> data plane and
>>>>>> control
>>>>>>> plane can work better with existing systems and improve
>>>>> scalability.
>>>>>> Data plane learning, l2 header transparency, bridging
>>>>> interoperability
>>>>>> are all very reasonable requirements for one type of
>>>>> data-centers. But
>>>>>> also an unacceptable burden for a different class of DC
>>>>> designs. In my
>>>>>> view you and Maria are just looking at different types of
>>>>> DC designs.
>>>>>> They are different problems.
>>>>> Precisely. And my comment was that the sentence in draft:
>>>>> "Often a combination of data plane and control based
>> learning is
>>>>> necessary" seems to be assuming that pretty much all
>> data centers
>>>>> must use (some) data plane learning. I have suggested
>> to clarify
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maria
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>     Pedro.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> --David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: [e-mail]
>> [mailto:[e-mail]] On
>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of
>>>>>>>> NAPIERALA, MARIA H
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 2:14 PM
>>>>>>>> To: [e-mail]
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvo3] call for adoption: draft-lasserre-nvo3-
>>>>>> framework-02
>>>>>>>> A comment on section 4.2.2 "Coordination between data plane
>>> and
>>>>>> control plane"
>>>>>>>>    "Often a combination of data plane and control based
>>>>> learning is
>>>>>>>>    necessary."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think this statement is too strong since in a solution
>>>>> proposed
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>> draft-
>>>>>>>> marques-l3vpn-end-system, for example, there is no
>> data plane
>>>>>> learning in a
>>>>>>>> virtual network. Maybe it should be explain when such
>>>>> combination
>>>>>>>> is necessary.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maria
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 6/18/2012 11:51 PM, Benson Schliesser wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Dear NVO3 Participants -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This message begins a two week Call for Adoption of
>>>>>>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/c-02 by the NVO3
>> working group,
>>>>>>>>> ending on 02-July-2012.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please respond to the NVO3 mailing list with any
>> statements
>>> of
>>>>>>>>> approval or disapproval, along with any additional
>>>>> comments that
>>>>>>>>> might explain your position. Also, if any NVO3
>> participant
>>>>>>>>> is aware of IPR associated with this draft, please inform
>>>>> the mailing
>>>>>>>>> list and/or the NVO3 chairs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> -Benson&  Matthew
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>

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