Re: [OAUTH-WG] WGLC for DPoP Document

[Denis <[e-mail]>]

Hi  Justin,

You broke the thread since you have not re-used the last message which was:

    Steinar,

    As you have guessed, no data (except the token and some crypto
    checksums) is passing through the clients.

    Once the legitimate client has allowed the illegitimate client to
    use the token, the illegitimate client can do anything it wants with it.
    The legitimate client can be kept fully ignorant of what
    illegitimate client is doing.

    The data flow is minimum: if the token allows to view a 4 Gb movie,
    that data flow does not flow between the clients.

    Furthermore, the content of the token may allow the illegitimate
    client to use it during days or months.
    Suppose that the token indicates "over 18". If the user is over 18
    now, he will certainly be "over 18" the next days, months or years.
    There is no need to refresh the token as it would be the case if the
    token included a home address.

This message explains why this collaborative attack is very different 
from simply forwarding messages between clients.

The illegitimate client can do anything it wants without disclosing what 
it is doing to the legitimate client.
The traffic between the clients is kept to the very minimum.

Denis

> +1
>
> Am 29.03.22 um 15:10 schrieb Justin Richer:
>> And this is exactly the problem with the “collaborating clients” 
>> attack, as has been pointed out any number of times it’s been brought 
>> up before. If two clients are willingly collaborating in this way, 
>> they do not need to share any cryptographic material and impersonate 
>> each other.
>>
>> You don’t need to steal my license if I’m willing to just go buy you 
>> beer.
>>
>> The DPoP draft does address signed request re-use, which some see as 
>> a feature to be carefully applied.
>>
>>  — Justin
>>
>>> On Mar 28, 2022, at 1:04 PM, Steinar Noem <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Interesting, but won't two collaborating clients just pass any data 
>>> they want to each other? Why would these collaborating clients go 
>>> through the trouble of exchanging private keys, dpop proofs or 
>>> tokens? Could you elaborate some more on the scenario?
>>>
>>> S
>>>
>>> man. 28. mar. 2022 kl. 16:29 skrev Denis <[e-mail]>:
>>>
>>>     Rifaat & Hannes,
>>>
>>>     Hereafter are my comments:
>>>
>>>     The introduction states :
>>>
>>>            Recipients of such tokens are then able to verify the
>>>     binding of the token to the key pair thatthe client has
>>>     demonstrated
>>>            that it holds via the DPoP header, thereby providing some
>>>     assurance that the client presenting the token also possesses
>>>     the private key.
>>>
>>>            In other words, the legitimate presenter of the token is
>>>     constrained to be the sender that holds and can prove possession
>>>     of the private part of the key pair.
>>>
>>>     The client presenting the token *does not necessarily possess
>>>     the private key*. The client presenting the token has been able
>>>     to use
>>>     the results of some cryptographic functions using the private
>>>     part of the key pair.
>>>
>>>     These results may be communicated by one client to another
>>>     client, if the two clients agree to collaborate. This statement
>>>     will be added later on.
>>>
>>>     Proposed rewording:
>>>
>>>            Recipients of such tokens are then able to verify the
>>>     binding of the token to the key pair thatthe client has
>>>     demonstrated
>>>            that it holds via the DPoP header, thereby providing some
>>>     assurance that the client presenting the token *either *also
>>>     possesses
>>>            the private key *or* has been able to use the result of
>>>     cryptographic computations from another client that possesses
>>>     the private key.
>>>
>>>            In other words, the presenter of the token can prove that
>>>     it has been able to use the results of cryptographic
>>>     computations performed
>>>            by using the private part of the key pair.
>>>
>>>     The objectives states
>>>
>>>            The primary aim of DPoP is to prevent unauthorized or
>>>     illegitimate parties from using leaked or stolen access tokens,
>>>            by binding a token to a public key upon issuance and
>>>     requiring that the client proves possession of the corresponding
>>>            private key when using the token.
>>>
>>>     DPoP does not prevent unauthorized or illegitimate parties from
>>>     using access tokens, as soon as two clients agree to collaborate.
>>>
>>>     Proposed rewording:
>>>
>>>            The primary aim of DPoP is to bind a token to a public
>>>     key upon issuance and requiring that the client proves possession
>>>            of the corresponding private key when using the
>>>     token.This does not demonstrate that the client presenting the
>>>     token is
>>>            necessarily the legitimate client. In the case of
>>>     non-collaborating clients, DPoP prevents unauthorized or
>>>     illegitimate parties
>>>            from using leaked or stolen access tokens. In the case of
>>>     collaborating clients, the security of DPoP is ineffective
>>>            (see section 11.X).
>>>
>>>     Section 11 is about "Security Considerations" and addresses the
>>>     following topics:
>>>
>>>     11.1.DPoP Proof Replay
>>>     11.2.DPoP Proof Pre-Generation
>>>     11.3.DPoP Nonce Downgrade
>>>     11.4.Untrusted Code in the Client Context
>>>     11.5.Signed JWT Swapping
>>>     11.6.Signature Algorithms
>>>     11.7.Message Integrity
>>>     11.8.Access Token and Public Key Binding
>>>     11.9.Authorization Code and Public Key Binding
>>>
>>>     The case of collaborative clients should be addressed within
>>>     section 11.
>>>
>>>     Text proposal.
>>>
>>>     11.X. Collaborative clients
>>>
>>>                 DPoP demonstrates that the client presenting the
>>>     token has been able to use the results of some cryptographic
>>>     functions
>>>     using the private part of the key pair.
>>>
>>>     If a client agrees to collaborate with another client, the
>>>     security of DPoP is no longer effective.When two clients agree
>>>     to collaborate,
>>>     these results of the cryptographic computations performed by one
>>>     client may be communicated to another client.
>>>
>>>     Even if the private key used for DPoP is stored in such a way
>>>     that it cannot be exported, e.g., in a hardware or software
>>>     security module,
>>>     the client can perform all the cryptographic computations needed
>>>     by the other client to create DPoP proofs.
>>>
>>>     The client can easily create new DPoP proofs as long as the
>>>     other client is online.
>>>
>>>     Note: There exist other techniques able to limit, in some cases,
>>>     the use of a token transmitted voluntarily by a legitimate client
>>>                           to an illegitimate client.
>>>
>>>     Denis
>>>
>>>
>>>>     All,
>>>>
>>>>     As discussed during the IETF meeting in *Vienna* last week,
>>>>     this is a *WG Last Call *for the *DPoP* document:
>>>>     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-oauth-dpop/
>>>>
>>>>     Please, provide your feedback on the mailing list by April 11th.
>>>>
>>>>     Regards,
>>>>      Rifaat & Hannes
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Vennlig hilsen
>>>
>>> Steinar Noem
>>> Partner Udelt AS
>>> Systemutvikler
>>> | [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> | [e-mail]  | +47 
>>> 955 21 620 | www.udelt.no <http://www.udelt.no/> |
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