[OPSAWG]Re: Gunter Van de Velde's Discuss on draft-ietf-opsawg-oam-characterization-15: (with DISCUSS)

[[e-mail]]

Re-, 

I don't have an issue with the compliance statement, Gunter. That’s a great comment.

My comment is more on the applicability part of your comment, especially the following:
 
> > GV> assuming there is agreement on "compliance statement" one
> > could simply say:
> > "The guidelines apply to documents that have the compliance
> statement
> > (section 3.7)"

I think that having text similar to the blob I shared is better to address this part of your comment.

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Gunter van de Velde (Nokia) <[e-mail]>
> Envoyé : mercredi 21 janvier 2026 09:43
> À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <[e-mail]>;
> Carlos Pignataro <[e-mail]>
> Cc : The IESG <[e-mail]>; Benoit Claise
> <[e-mail]>; Benoit Claise <benoit@everything-
> ops.net>; [e-mail]; opsawg-
> [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> Objet : RE: Gunter Van de Velde's Discuss on draft-ietf-opsawg-
> oam-characterization-15: (with DISCUSS)
> 
> 
> Hi Med,
> 
> There is merit in this text blob, but how does one know when
> reading, lets say in 3 years, a novel RFC and understand if the
> used terminology definitions came from draft-ietf-opsawg-oam-
> characterization or not? (i.e. maybe this rfc was already in rfc
> editor queue or part of a cluster and published with delay?)
> 
> Without an explicit compliance statement it is unclear what exact
> terminology definition is applied. Using a compliance statement
> looks simple and it is 100% accurate. Unsure I understand the
> concern against a compliance statement?
> 
> Be well,
> G/
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2026 8:58 AM
> To: Gunter van de Velde (Nokia) <[e-mail]>;
> Carlos Pignataro <[e-mail]>
> Cc: The IESG <[e-mail]>; Benoit Claise
> <[e-mail]>; Benoit Claise <benoit@everything-
> ops.net>; [e-mail]; opsawg-
> [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> Subject: RE: Gunter Van de Velde's Discuss on draft-ietf-opsawg-
> oam-characterization-15: (with DISCUSS)
> 
> Hi Gunter, all,
> 
> For the applicability point you mentioned below, the intent is
> that, unless there are valid reasons, OAM-related documents that
> the IETF will produce after the publication of this document
> should follow the guidance.
> 
> This is not different from how similar BCPs are scoped. For
> example, BCP 166
> (https://fra01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc6365%23section-
> 1.1&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc236dee9199448
> 2d89b308de58c92414%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C63
> 9045818092886841%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsI
> lYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3
> D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=29jx9FZ9x05xhaDh6BZrlizOVlknSYdTVSYerFvNOQA%3
> D&reserved=0) includes the following:
> 
>    The definitions here SHOULD be used by IETF standards.  IETF
>    standards that explicitly want to create different definitions
> for
>    the terms defined here can do so, but unless an alternate
> definition
>    is provided the definitions of the terms in this document
> apply.
>    IETF standards that have a requirement for different
> definitions are
>    encouraged, for clarity's sake, to find terms different than
> the ones
>    defined here.
> 
> If this helps, similar text can be considered for this document.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Cheers,
> Med
> 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Gunter van de Velde (Nokia)
> > <gunter.van_de_velde=[e-mail]>
> > Envoyé : mercredi 21 janvier 2026 06:01 À : Carlos Pignataro
> > <[e-mail]> Cc : The IESG <[e-mail]>; Benoit
> Claise
> > <[e-mail]>; Benoit Claise <benoit@everything-
> > ops.net>; [e-mail];
> opsawg-
> > [e-mail]; [e-mail] Objet : RE: Gunter Van de
> Velde's
> > Discuss on draft-ietf-opsawg-
> > oam-characterization-15: (with DISCUSS)
> >
> >
> > Hi Carlos,
> >
> > Hope this mail finds you well.
> >
> > See inline: GV>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carlos Pignataro <[e-mail]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2026 6:19 PM
> > To: Gunter van de Velde (Nokia) <[e-mail]>
> > Cc: The IESG <[e-mail]>; Benoit Claise
> > <[e-mail]>; Benoit Claise <benoit@everything-
> > ops.net>; [e-mail];
> opsawg-
> > [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> > Subject: Re: Gunter Van de Velde's Discuss on draft-ietf-opsawg-
> > oam-characterization-15: (with DISCUSS)
> >
> > Hi, Gunter,
> >
> > Thank you for this two-part DISCUSS, which I find super useful.
> >
> > > # I think the draft is well written and conveys great value.
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your general observation as well!
> >
> > 1.
> > > ##Would it be useful to introduce a simple “compliance
> > statement” in
> > > future drafts—perhaps in the terminology section—indicating
> that
> > the
> > > document aligns with this BCP? This could be similar in spirit
> > to how
> > > BCP 14 is referenced today and would make the level of
> adherence
> > explicit.
> >
> > YES! I think this is a fantastic idea. If others find this
> suggestion
> > useful, I would add a new Section 3.7, compliance statement,
> including
> > something like "Authors who follow the terms as defined in this
> > document should incorporate this phrase in a terminology
> section: ‘OAM
> > terms … are to be interpreted as described in BCP …"
> >
> > GV> Thanks. I'll wait to see how this spins out from consensus
> > GV> perspective
> >
> > 2.
> > > ## The document states that the guidelines apply to “future”
> > > documents, but I am not sure that the term future is very
> > precise.
> > > What is considered future today may already be history in a
> > short time.
> >
> > Future is intended to mean documents to be approved after the
> > publication of this BCP. What’s the best way to word that? For
> > example, should not affect documents in the RFC Ed queue.
> >
> > GV> assuming there is agreement on "compliance statement" one
> > could simply say:
> > "The guidelines apply to documents that have the compliance
> statement
> > (section 3.7)"
> >
> > Be well,
> > G/
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Carlos.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jan 20, 2026, at 1:34 PM, Gunter Van de Velde via
> Datatracker
> > <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Gunter Van de Velde has entered the following ballot position
> > for
> > > draft-ietf-opsawg-oam-characterization-15: Discuss
> > >
> > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply
> > to all
> > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to
> > cut
> > > this introductory paragraph, however.)
> > >
> > >
> > > Please refer to
> > >
> >
> https://fra01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
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> > kCbTXnvTsbYjMAWmkF6N%2F%2FeHK10w7wlKzvG6gk6V18%3D&reserved=0
> > www.
> > > ietf.org%2Fabout%2Fgroups%2Fiesg%2Fstatements%2Fhandling-
> ballot-
> > posi&d
> > >
> >
> ata=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C6fbf0d74d0004f5090f
> > d08d
> > >
> >
> e58aa195d%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C63904568475
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> > ata=
> > > 46mlQYXa7ZsORr8%2FdPujJe6UOetsGdDYfKOlU4Z14Zg%3D&reserved=0
> > > tions/ for more information about how to handle DISCUSS and
> > COMMENT
> > > positions.
> > >
> > >
> > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found
> > here:
> > >
> >
> https://fra01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
> fra0
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> %2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Cc236dee9199448
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> 1.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252F
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> > data
> > > tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-opsawg-oam-
> > characterizatio&data=05
> > >
> >
> %7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C6fbf0d74d0004f5090fd08de5
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> > >
> >
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> > > n/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > ------
> > > DISCUSS:
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > ------
> > >
> > > # Gunter Van de Velde, RTG AD, comments for
> > > draft-ietf-opsawg-oam-characterization-15
> > >
> > > # The line numbers used are rendered from IETF idnits tool:
> > >
> >
> https://fra01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
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> > >
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> > > ive/id/draft-ietf-opsawg-oam-characterization-15.txt
> > >
> > > # Many thanks to Mach Chen for the RTGDIR IETF Last Call
> Review
> > >
> > > # I think the draft is well written and conveys great value.
> > >
> > > # Please find two DISCUSS observations i had when processing
> the
> > document.
> > >
> > > # DISCUSS
> > > # ========
> > >
> > > # Are there guidelines for documents that intentionally do not
> > follow
> > > the proposal?
> > >
> > > ##The proposed changes in this document are clearly relevant
> for
> > OAM documents.
> > > I can see the merit in having a single, uniform definition of
> > the
> > > terminology, but I wonder whether it is really necessary for
> the
> > > definitions to be identical in all cases, across every context
> > and for every application or service.
> > >
> > > ##Would it be useful to introduce a simple “compliance
> > statement” in
> > > future drafts—perhaps in the terminology section—indicating
> that
> > the
> > > document aligns with this BCP? This could be similar in spirit
> > to how
> > > BCP 14 is referenced today and would make the level of
> adherence
> > explicit.
> > >
> > > # Clarifying what “future documents” means
> > >
> > > ## The document states that the guidelines apply to “future”
> > > documents, but I am not sure that the term future is very
> > precise.
> > > What is considered future today may already be history in a
> > short time.
> > >
> > > ## Would it be clearer to say that the guidelines apply to
> > documents
> > > published after this BCP is published, or to documents that
> > include a
> > > normative reference to it? More specifically, is the
> expectation
> > that
> > > documents currently in progress, possibly even those already
> in
> > the
> > > RFC Editor queue, are required to adopt this terminology, or
> is
> > the
> > > intent only to guide new work from the point of publication
> > onward?
> > >
> > > Thanks for this write-up.
> > >
> > > Gunter Van de Velde
> > > RTG Area Director
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> 
> __________________________________________________________________
> __________________________________________
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Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
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