Re: [OPSAWG] appeal on adoption of draft-ietf-opsawg-tacacs-00.txt as an opsawg topic

[Stefan Winter <[e-mail]>]

Hi,

> The chairs of the opsawg received an appeal from Alan DeKok on 11 February
> 2016 concerning the handling and possible disposition of
> draft-ietf-opsawg-tacacs-00.txt (TACACS+). This message was a follow up of
> a number of  email messages sent to the opsawg mailing list starting on 10
> February.
>
> The topics of the appeal and other messages from Mr. DeKok included:
> 1/ The adoption of the TACACS+ Internet Draft as a working group item.
> 2/ The appropriateness of publishing the TACACS+ Internet Draft as
> a RFC through the IETF track.
> 3/ The appropriateness of publishing the TACACS+ Internet Draft as
> a standards track RFC.
>
> This memo concerns the first topic, the other two topics are proper topics
> for a working group mailing list when an Internet Draft is under
> consideration.  
>
> First some history:
>
> After some initial confusion, the Internet Draft draft-grant-tacacs-00.txt
> was published on 12 June 2015.  In an email message to the opsawg list
> Doug Gash said:
>
> " TACACS+ is a protocol widely deployed, based upon a draft specification
> that Cisco submitted in 1998, but never completed to RFC status. The
> original draft has been tidied and lightly enhanced and resubmitted, with
> the intent to finally get it published as a standard."
>
> He then followed up with an email message describing the updates to the
> old ID.
>
> 1 July 2015: the OPS Ads put TACACS+ on the agenda for ops area session
> during IETF 93
>
> 20 July 2015: The ops area session was held. The TACACS+ slides used
> during the session are at: 
> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/slides/slides-93-opsarea-2.pdf
>
> Minutes of the session are quite sparse.  They note that the presentation
> occurred and that Alan DeKok objected to the proposal.
>
> The audio recording of the session is at:
> https://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf93/ietf93-congresshalli-20150720-1740.mp3
>
> The audio of the speakers and the commentators at the mic line are quite
> clear but, unfortunately, the audio of the AD is unintelligible.   The
> recording shows that there was little discussion of the merits of the
> proposal other than Mr. DeKok's objections.  One of the chairs (Scott)
> recalls that the AD did some form of assessment to gage interest in
> working on the ID and found support.  
>
> 2 October  2015:  updated ID published
>
> 4 October 2015:  Doug Gash sent note to opsawg list asking for opinions of
> the list for publication
>
> 13 November 2015: Warren sent the following message asking for input on
> the ID (
> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/opsawg/current/msg04124.html)
>
> Dear OpsAWG WG,
>
>    We would really appreciate any feedback on this document. Personally I
>    think it is really useful, but we need the WG to review and provide
>    feedback.
>
>    Over the years I've heard a number of people kvetch that TACACS+ isn't
>    documented -- well, now you can, you know, actually do something about
>    this...
>
>    W
>
>
> There were a number of responses in support of publication and the WG
> working on the ID along with some technical discussion.
>
> The chairs concluded that there was enough interest to adopt the ID as a
> working group topic.
>
> 30 November: 2015: Warren sent the following message to the opsawg: 
> (for some reason this message does not show up in the archive but a
> copy is 
> appended to this message)
>
>     The chairs believe that there is sufficient interest and support
> to adopt
>     this document as an OpsAWG document.  
>
>     Authors, please resubmit as draft-ietf-opsawg-tacacs-01

Argh. It would help to indicate time zones in this... the mail arrived
just fine on 01 Dec! (CET).

Stefan

>
> 16 December 2015 - renamed ID published
>
>
> By asking the working group list for input on the question of adopting an
> ID as a working group document the opsawg chairs followed one of the
> normal IETF process to determine if there was enough interest for the
> working group to adopt the TACACS+ ID as a working group topic.  We note
> in passing that such another normal process is for the WG chairs to decide
> on their own to adopt a document as a working group topic.  We also felt
> that the topic was sufficiently within the working group charter to do so
> without a specific charter update.
>
> Thus Mr. DeKok's appeal as to the adoption of the ID as a working group
> topic is rejected. If Mr. DeKok believes that this does not satisfy his
> concerns, we refer him to RFC 2026, Section 6.5 for the next steps in the
> appeal process.
>
> Scott Bradner
> Warren Kumari
> 12 February 2016
>
>
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> Re: [OPSAWG] FW: New Version Notification for
> draft-dahm-opsawg-tacacs-01.txt
>
> Dear OpsAWG,
>
> The chairs believe that there is sufficient interest and support to
> adopt this document as an OpsAWG document.
>
> Authors, please resubmit as draft-ietf-opsawg-tacacs-01
>
> Working group: 
> We would like to see this document progress, and are hoping to WGLC it
> soon. Please review this and provide feedback....
>
> W
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 1:37 PM Warren Kumari <[e-mail]
> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>
>     We would really appreciate any feedback on this document. Personally I
>     think it is really useful, but we need the WG to review and provide
>     feedback.
>
>     Over the years I've heard a number of people kvetch that TACACS+ isn't
>     documented -- well, now you can, you know, actually do something about
>     this...
>
>     W
>
>     On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Douglas Gash (dcmgash)
>     <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>     > Dear Opsawg List,
>     >
>     > We have uploaded a second revision of the TACACS+ protocol
>     specification
>     > which we believe is ready for publication subject subject to port
>     > allocation.
>     >
>     > Please see details below.
>     >
>     > The essential difference from the first revision is the change
>     of TLS
>     > option support using a separate port as opposed to the original
>     Start TLS
>     > mechanism.
>     >
>     > We would be very grateful for the opinion of the list regarding the
>     > suitability of document for publication as an RFC.
>     >
>     > Many thanks,
>     >
>     > Thorsten, Andrej, Doug.
>     >
>     >
>     > On 02/10/2015 16:25, "[e-mail]
>     <mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]
>     <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>     > wrote:
>     >
>     >>
>     >>A new version of I-D, draft-dahm-opsawg-tacacs-01.txt
>     >>has been successfully submitted by Douglas C. Medway Gash and
>     posted to
>     >>the
>     >>IETF repository.
>     >>
>     >>Name:          draft-dahm-opsawg-tacacs
>     >>Revision:      01
>     >>Title:         The TACACS+ Protocol
>     >>Document date: 2015-10-02
>     >>Group:         Individual Submission
>     >>Pages:         38
>     >>URL:
>     >>https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dahm-opsawg-tacacs-01.txt
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_internet-2Ddrafts_draft-2Ddahm-2Dopsawg-2Dtacacs-2D01.txt&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=yqfP3H9W5MwHGwfujayvzw&m=d2zkbEKtM7zrJuQJ4PvYtvpZHG4hcvhucuhOb03y1AE&s=vyypsgLv4xU9ZRXKDc8Zkhvs5lCaHleFtGf5rjYk54w&e=>
>     >>Status:       
>      https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dahm-opsawg-tacacs/
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Ddahm-2Dopsawg-2Dtacacs_&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=yqfP3H9W5MwHGwfujayvzw&m=d2zkbEKtM7zrJuQJ4PvYtvpZHG4hcvhucuhOb03y1AE&s=pi2uoSR8CEuAJVZ_4dGTcROLb8CBvXY0-Xu3Esl7ajI&e=>
>     >>Htmlized:     
>      https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dahm-opsawg-tacacs-01
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Ddahm-2Dopsawg-2Dtacacs-2D01&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=yqfP3H9W5MwHGwfujayvzw&m=d2zkbEKtM7zrJuQJ4PvYtvpZHG4hcvhucuhOb03y1AE&s=Mzs24EJmK4LizQd9pZm60DGEU9VL8lPDu4g4M4seCNU&e=>
>     >>Diff:
>     >>https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-dahm-opsawg-tacacs-01
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_rfcdiff-3Furl2-3Ddraft-2Ddahm-2Dopsawg-2Dtacacs-2D01&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=yqfP3H9W5MwHGwfujayvzw&m=d2zkbEKtM7zrJuQJ4PvYtvpZHG4hcvhucuhOb03y1AE&s=gzIvoARJGTdOsKUv-BGo6VrrLxiGpkldFxuGvErprD0&e=>
>     >>
>     >>Abstract:
>     >>   TACACS+ provides access control for routers, network access
>     servers
>     >>   and other networked computing devices via one or more centralized
>     >>   servers.  TACACS+ provides separate authentication,
>     authorization and
>     >>   accounting services.  This document describes the protocol
>     that is
>     >>   used by TACACS+.
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>     >>submission
>     >>until the htmlized version and diff are available
>     at tools.ietf.org
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__tools.ietf.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=yqfP3H9W5MwHGwfujayvzw&m=d2zkbEKtM7zrJuQJ4PvYtvpZHG4hcvhucuhOb03y1AE&s=jP3VYysdEEmDassAUrlny4_ZYb4Y69qiZyK4_P6O0pQ&e=>.
>     >>
>     >>The IETF Secretariat
>     >>
>     >
>
>
>
>     --
>     I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
>     idea in the first place.
>     This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
>     regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
>     of pants.
>        ---maf
>
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