Re: [Paw] Renaming

Pascal,
           Shall we split this e-mail between the renaming
topic and the reliability metrics discussion? I think both
items are really relevant to the group and deserve their
individual space.
Regards,

                             Diego Dujovne

Le ven. 5 avr. 2019 à 07:03, Hesham ElBakoury <Hesham.ElBakoury@huawei.com>
a écrit :

> There is a good book on reliability by Michael Tortorella. The book is "*Reliability,
> Maintainability, and Supportability: Best Practices for Systems Engineers*".
> It is available from Wiley.
>
> Hesham
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paw [mailto:paw-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert
> (pthubert)
> Sent: Friday, April 5, 2019 1:55 AM
> To: Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr>
> Cc: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>; paw@ietf.org; Venkatesan, Ganesh <
> ganesh.venkatesan@intel.com>
> Subject: Re: [Paw] Renaming
>
>
>
> Hello Juliusz:
>
>
>
> Actually the theoretical work has been done a while ago, as  a response to
> your question at the mike when I suggested you dig for MTBF or similar
> (MTTF, MTBE...). We tend to express a network form of MTBF in a number of
> 9s. Like five 9s would indicate that the Mean Successful Transmissions
> Between Errors is 99999. A number of use cases would thrive on 1% loss as
> long as losses are always well spaced so the missing points can be
> recovered. This can be true for an industrial control loop, and false for
> burning a master video. The N 9s are there to make the occurrence of P
> (say, 4) losses in a row very rare, like a probability of 1/10^(N*P). But
> the 9s are for unrelated errors and fail to convey a rare burst of errors
> with a common cause, which is what really hurts. These things happen on
> radios and that's why we are after diverse paths etc..
>
>
>
> There's enough stats for is in
> https://ftp.automationdirect.com/pub/Product%20Reliability%20and%20MTBF.pdf
> to take us a long way. Our problem is to migrate the concept from a product
> to a sequence of nodes and then to more complex structures. This could be
> refined in an academic paper, I expect that'd be a great topic, and then an
> RFC would summarize that.
>
>
>
> What I'd like to see is an informational RFC that presents wireless
> reliability in a way that can be consumed by the IETF members, and provides
> terminology that can be referred in our specs. You seemed curious about the
> topic; that's quality number one for achieving great results : )
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Pascal
>
>
>
> More links:
>
>
> http://www.bb-elec.com/Learning-Center/All-White-Papers/Fiber/MTBF,-MTTR,-MTTF,-FIT-Explanation-of-Terms/MTBF-MTTR-MTTF-FIT-10262012-pdf.pdf
>
>
> https://books.google.nl/books?id=rNLSBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA171&lpg=PA171&dq=reliability+MTBF+MTBE+papers&source=bl&ots=L7BsInfaO3&sig=ACfU3U0kYd1lGRyRR_aD5AET9LOI8ZfZWg&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwisr-LirLjhAhWPZ1AKHe8yARwQ6AEwA3oECAgQAQ
>
>
>
> https://www.dfrsolutions.com/blog/the-challenges-of-wireless-reliability
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr>
>
> > Sent: vendredi 5 avril 2019 01:40
>
> > To: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com>
>
> > Cc: Venkatesan, Ganesh <ganesh.venkatesan@intel.com>; Lou Berger
>
> > <lberger@labn.net>; paw@ietf.org
>
> > Subject: Re: [Paw] Renaming
>
> >
>
> > > We'll also need to provide a definition of reliability and
>
> > > availability and as we discussed, 5nines is probably not the only or
>
> > > even best way to express any of that. Juliusz actually raised the
>
> > > point and I hope he continues on that path and even produces a spec
> for us.
>
> >
>
> > I'm flattered you think so, but I'm pretty sure I'm not competent.
>
> > You'd need someone with more of a background in probability and
> statistics.
>
> >
>
> > -- Juliusz
>
>
>
> --
>
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>
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>
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>


-- 
DIEGO DUJOVNE
Profesor Asociado
Escuela de Informática y Telecomunicaciones
Facultad de Ingeniería - Universidad Diego Portales - Chile
www.ingenieria.udp.cl
(56 2) 676 8125