Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 posted)
Reinaldo Penno <rpenno@juniper.net> Thu, 28 October 2010 10:16 UTC
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From: Reinaldo Penno <rpenno@juniper.net>
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com>, "pcp@ietf.org" <pcp@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 06:18:01 -0400
Thread-Topic: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 posted)
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Subject: Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 posted)
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Hi, I talked to Dan today and I believe we came to an agreement on the 'problem statement'. Unfortunately what you/we propose below also does not solve the problem. It is a very practical problem and already described in detail: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-troan-multihoming-without-nat66-01 (specifically in section 7.1) and https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kuarsingh-lsn-deployment-00. But imagine both combined, more NAT modes and other CPE/Hosts being served. These features and deployments are the norm in actual ISPs and PCP will hopefully play along along and prove useful. As a *simple example* let's say an IPv6-only host and a ING (Integrated NAT Gateway) that does NAT66, NAT64 and FW66. Let's suppose the host traffic will _never_ traverse the NAT64 or NAT66. If the PCP Client asks for the capability, it would get NAT64/NAT66/FW66 in the list and consequently requests 3 mappings. This brings some interesting questions that I tried articulating earlier: * How can a client determine that 2 out of 3 mappings are not really needed? It is a function of actual traffic and not all the NAT modes in the ING. Scalability (permanent storage), performance (lookups) will be adversely impacted. * Should the client keep trying until it gets the same port from all three different NAT types? Referral of objects (in this case ports) plays a role here. The Application needs to decide which external port to advertise to another host. * If the Application Server can be reached through FW66 and NAT64 but their semantics are different, say: anybody coming through FW66 can reach me in port X, but if you are coming through the NAT64 I need an EIF (Endpoint Independent Filter) attached to the mapping and the external port will be different. Much like 'zones' (or a similar concept) in ING today. Thanks, Reinaldo On 10/27/10 11:15 PM, "mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange-ftgroup.com> wrote: > Hi Reinaldo, all, > > FWIW, an example of how the capabilities of the PCP-controlled device is > retrieved can be found at: > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bpw-softwire-pcp-flow-examples-00#section-6.2 > > Cheers, > Med > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Reinaldo Penno [mailto:rpenno@juniper.net] > Envoyé : mercredi 27 octobre 2010 20:26 > À : Dan Wing; BOUCADAIR Mohamed NCPI/NAD/TIP; pcp@ietf.org > Objet : Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 posted) > > Dan, > > Your premise is that a host somehow knows these things. My question is on > the 'somehow'. Why (and how) an IPv6-only host will determine that it needs > and request NAT64 mapping? An IPv6-only host as far as it is concerned only > sends or receives IPv6 packets - it has no idea of IPv4 or NAT64. > > I think a discovery procedure is needed so that a host can find out what > type of NAT is behind when it actually sends or receives packets (as opposed > to all NAT types on the Gateway). > > Thanks, > > Reinaldo > > > > On 10/27/10 11:17 AM, "Dan Wing" <dwing@cisco.com> wrote: > >> If those are running on an IPvX-only host, and there is a desire >> to accept IPvY connections (where X is different from Y), then >> a NAT46 or NAT64 is needed, and thus a PIN46 (or PIN64) would >> be requested by the host. > > > ********************************* > This message and any attachments (the "message") are confidential and intended > solely for the addressees. > Any unauthorised use or dissemination is prohibited. > Messages are susceptible to alteration. > France Telecom Group shall not be liable for the message if altered, changed > or falsified. > If you are not the intended addressee of this message, please cancel it > immediately and inform the sender. > ******************************** >
- [pcp] draft-wing-pcp-base-01 posted Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] On the need of Error Codes/Sub-codes (w… Francis Dupont
- Re: [pcp] draft-wing-pcp-base-01 posted Francis Dupont
- [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 posted) mohamed.boucadair
- [pcp] Detect an on-path NAT (was RE: draft-wing-p… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] draft-wing-pcp-base-01 posted mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Francis Dupont
- [pcp] On the need of Error Codes/Sub-codes (was R… mohamed.boucadair
- [pcp] IWF & PCP Port Number (was RE: draft-wing-p… mohamed.boucadair
- [pcp] Port contiguity (was RE: draft-wing-pcp-bas… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] draft-wing-pcp-base-01 posted Francis Dupont
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [pcp] IWF & PCP Port Number (was RE: draft-wi… Francis Dupont
- Re: [pcp] On the need of Error Codes/Sub-codes (w… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] Port contiguity (was RE: draft-wing-pcp… Senthil Sivakumar (ssenthil)
- Re: [pcp] draft-wing-pcp-base-01 posted mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] Port contiguity (was RE: draft-wing-pcp… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] IWF & PCP Port Number (was RE: draft-wi… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] Detect an on-path NAT (was RE: draft-wi… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] draft-wing-pcp-base-01 posted Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] Port contiguity (was RE: draft-wing-pcp… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] Port contiguity (was RE: draft-wing-pcp… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] On the need of Error Codes/Sub-codes (w… Francis Dupont
- Re: [pcp] Port contiguity (was RE: draft-wing-pcp… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] Port contiguity (was RE: draft-wing-pcp… Francis Dupont
- Re: [pcp] IWF & PCP Port Number (was RE: draft-wi… Francis Dupont
- Re: [pcp] draft-wing-pcp-base-01 posted Francis Dupont
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Francis Dupont
- Re: [pcp] Port contiguity (was RE: draft-wing-pcp… Francis Dupont
- Re: [pcp] Port contiguity (was RE: draft-wing-pcp… Tom Taylor
- Re: [pcp] Port contiguity (was RE: draft-wing-pcp… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] Detect an on-path NAT (was RE: draft-wi… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] On the need of Error Codes/Sub-codes (w… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] IWF & PCP Port Number (was RE: draft-wi… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] Port contiguity (was RE: draft-wing-pcp… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] Port contiguity (was RE: draft-wing-pcp… Dan Wing
- [pcp] PCP DS-Lite Encapsulation Mode [was RE: Det… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] Detect an on-path NAT (was RE: draft-wi… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] PCP DS-Lite Encapsulation Mode [was RE:… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] Port contiguity (was RE: draft-wing-pcp… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] Port contiguity (was RE: draft-wing-pcp… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] Port contiguity (was RE: draft-wing-pcp… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] Detect an on-path NAT (was RE: draft-wi… Francis Dupont
- Re: [pcp] Detect an on-path NAT (was RE: draft-wi… Francis Dupont
- Re: [pcp] Detect an on-path NAT (was RE: draft-wi… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] PCP DS-Lite Encapsulation Mode [was RE:… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] PCP DS-Lite Encapsulation Mode [was RE:… Francis Dupont
- Re: [pcp] PCP DS-Lite Encapsulation Mode [was RE:… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] Port contiguity (was RE: draft-wing-pcp… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] Port contiguity (was RE: draft-wing-pcp… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [pcp] Detect an on-path NAT (was RE: draft-wi… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] PCP DS-Lite Encapsulation Mode [was RE:… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] Detect an on-path NAT (was RE: draft-wi… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] Detect an on-path NAT (was RE: draft-wi… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] firewall detection RE: Detect an on-pat… Francis Dupont
- [pcp] firewall detection RE: Detect an on-path NA… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] firewall detection RE: Detect an on-pat… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [pcp] firewall detection RE: Detect an on-pat… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] firewall detection RE: Detect an on-pat… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] IWF & PCP Port Number (was RE: draft-wi… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] firewall detection RE: Detect an on-pat… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] firewall detection RE: Detect an on-pat… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] PCP DS-Lite Encapsulation Mode [was RE:… Francis Dupont
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [pcp] Detect an on-path NAT (was RE: draft-wi… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] Detect an on-path NAT (was RE: draft-wi… Francis Dupont
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Reinaldo Penno
- [pcp] multihoming RE: OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pc… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] multihoming RE: OpCopdes (RE: draft-win… Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] OpCopdes (RE: draft-wing-pcp-base-01 po… mohamed.boucadair
- [pcp] Pinhole lifetime (was RE: draft-wing-pcp-ba… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] Pinhole lifetime (was RE: draft-wing-pc… Francis Dupont
- Re: [pcp] Pinhole lifetime (was RE: draft-wing-pc… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [pcp] Pinhole lifetime (was RE: draft-wing-pc… Francis Dupont
- Re: [pcp] Pinhole lifetime (was RE: draft-wing-pc… mohamed.boucadair
- [pcp] UPnP IGD interworking function Dan Wing
- Re: [pcp] UPnP IGD interworking function Francis Dupont