Re: Comparing HTTP over QUIC header compression schemes

"Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com> Tue, 06 June 2017 09:21 UTC

Return-Path: <lars@netapp.com>
X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F5D3124D68 for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 02:21:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.902
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=netapp.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7NZsZ73W8PqH for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 02:21:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx141.netapp.com (mx141.netapp.com [216.240.21.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2A2E12426E for <quic@ietf.org>; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 02:21:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.39,305,1493708400"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="207099118"
Received: from hioexcmbx04-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.122.105.37]) by mx141-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 06 Jun 2017 02:00:44 -0700
Received: from VMWEXCCAS05-PRD.hq.netapp.com (10.122.105.21) by hioexcmbx04-prd.hq.netapp.com (10.122.105.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 02:16:45 -0700
Received: from NAM02-BL2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (10.120.60.153) by VMWEXCCAS05-PRD.hq.netapp.com (10.122.105.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 02:16:45 -0700
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=netapp.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-netapp-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=T+Vilz4ioKxAFg3gYGWz7k7E/ojCMUUF98KRKcdB4jg=; b=pFWLANoa+9yg5Y+gzwTDsF8dRis3e0NGU3jwksMR6ff8NHj4nVMabQPedtx7iXTnLqE2MiV83pK5rvMl0KYaAfVR+gpbb5sDlcFiak/uLycVB1Ymz8Z+p8ui/URLbS5Cj+tOCui7qitMM9ZAWdEOmOY9HSYB/M+QbJxDoYEtMyM=
Received: from BLUPR06MB1764.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.162.224.150) by BLUPR06MB1762.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.162.224.148) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1143.10; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 09:16:46 +0000
Received: from BLUPR06MB1764.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.162.224.150]) by BLUPR06MB1764.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.162.224.150]) with mapi id 15.01.1157.012; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 09:16:46 +0000
From: "Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com>
To: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
CC: Alan Frindell <afrind@fb.com>, IETF QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Comparing HTTP over QUIC header compression schemes
Thread-Topic: Comparing HTTP over QUIC header compression schemes
Thread-Index: AQHS3pDkbL6XmOk6K0ms9bs9UuyP16IXiUoAgAADLQCAAAGjgA==
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2017 09:16:46 +0000
Message-ID: <2C0AE395-D044-4773-B24B-E1933BCF7EDB@netapp.com>
References: <7241DB81-B9AD-44B6-9B03-902A8890F672@fb.com> <6C24B412-CB20-4DA4-9300-A1CA67CBC2A2@netapp.com> <CABkgnnU5Ar37eT83y5UXb-72r5qkUGpO164zKUM_1WuRv3vLvA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABkgnnU5Ar37eT83y5UXb-72r5qkUGpO164zKUM_1WuRv3vLvA@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach: yes
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273)
authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=netapp.com;
x-originating-ip: [2001:450:1e:232:f1e9:551d:ec8b:7d09]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BLUPR06MB1762; 7:ATCpkq0ZLZ7kRyB54mj5VysG/4DG2/fuTi1xwFpAh59c+0qOTn0O61m2SvLO8hBC916wnNCEjf2eS2Rt6Fz+Ol89DT+ckRTNsL4HXwkxUNNdneaDF2YeMyJ1f3oYTwO+3BT/5seEgw9Lz0VisuIF8/RfX1uLg9DkIy/1He4t0Ji/ZK5xRXdTOTktz0MLaiEq7EXwZITrcm8gf/2tjRET6sEpGmygv7JusFqmLhtxUzJHM9I0oSNjfUuw7B06drbJH2ZCP4nkarefiZE4XUa01tWhxWB+iVzNR4n66x9RRF5Vb42m1LKBAwjhrRlpYiBGDKVW0S8q7p2JLffMdbBC4Q==
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BLUPR06MB1762:
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d40eecf7-18b6-439f-e79d-08d4acbcc1a6
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(2017030254075)(201703131423075)(201703031133081); SRVR:BLUPR06MB1762;
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BLUPR06MB17622E7102B455819B945765A7CB0@BLUPR06MB1762.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:;
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(102415395)(6040450)(601004)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(93006095)(93001095)(3002001)(10201501046)(100000703101)(100105400095)(6055026)(6041248)(20161123560025)(201703131423075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123564025)(20161123555025)(20161123562025)(20161123558100)(6072148)(100000704101)(100105200095)(100000705101)(100105500095); SRVR:BLUPR06MB1762; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:BLUPR06MB1762;
x-forefront-prvs: 033054F29A
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6009001)(39840400002)(39450400003)(39850400002)(39400400002)(39410400002)(377424004)(24454002)(82746002)(3660700001)(4001150100001)(6916009)(2950100002)(6436002)(6506006)(3280700002)(14454004)(36756003)(2906002)(8936002)(83716003)(81166006)(33656002)(50226002)(8676002)(229853002)(53936002)(38730400002)(110136004)(6246003)(478600001)(99286003)(54906002)(57306001)(122556002)(6512007)(6486002)(77096006)(50986999)(86362001)(5660300001)(99936001)(2900100001)(305945005)(7736002)(102836003)(4326008)(6116002)(76176999)(39060400002)(25786009)(53546009)(189998001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR06MB1762; H:BLUPR06MB1764.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:ovrnspm; PTR:InfoNoRecords; LANG:en;
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B9747FEC-F811-4AC1-A903-477639B976AC"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha512"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Jun 2017 09:16:46.6620 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4b0911a0-929b-4715-944b-c03745165b3a
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR06MB1762
X-OriginatorOrg: netapp.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/QAHo55w2AJcHS70Flfrbwiay3_k>
X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group <quic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2017 09:21:51 -0000

On 2017-6-6, at 11:10, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6 June 2017 at 10:59, Eggert, Lars <lars@netapp.com> wrote:
>> (2) simulating loss rates much above 1% is likely going to be pretty uninteresting, given that QUIC (and TCP, FWIW) have congestion controllers that will struggle to even deliver useful throughputs in these cases
> 
> That's an interesting point.  I've seen a presentation (that I can't
> find now, but I can try) that shows that packet loss in real-world
> scenarios approaches 2% in a great many cases.

SACK helps. But he measures up to 10% ("much above").

Lars