ECN in QUIC
Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> Wed, 16 August 2017 09:33 UTC
Return-Path: <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5EC3132031 for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 02:33:44 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.22
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QzMkIO3lyhwk for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 02:33:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1518A1323B4 for <quic@ietf.org>; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 02:33:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-96f7a9c000005897-a1-59941174b06e
Received: from ESESSHC024.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.90]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id C4.A8.22679.47114995; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:33:40 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from EUR01-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (153.88.183.145) by oa.msg.ericsson.com (153.88.183.90) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.352.0; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:33:38 +0200
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-ericsson-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=mcwtISnluNnfzjeG6iQn3Sb0iIBuJuEkrpXysh+TkaY=; b=eoHo7b2qmRk3mwjSNJm+nPJFpb0DVv+1uY5Qcm/p+9AtCPudeUZsEMj+pSkSt6PnhsJgICWvZOUw1RxbgslAvl7zNgQ+ksJBJARu+/7/3vtRZyoiU7jCGF+Ziga5JaoSuDMxWvP589ymufNjdaS4OZedALxYccN//A4orjo53iY=
Received: from AM3PR07MB340.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.109.25) by AM3PR07MB1060.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.163.187.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.1.1362.12; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 09:33:37 +0000
Received: from AM3PR07MB340.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c8a4:ba1a:386b:7c72]) by AM3PR07MB340.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c8a4:ba1a:386b:7c72%17]) with mapi id 15.01.1362.012; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 09:33:36 +0000
From: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
To: QUIC IETF mailing list <quic@ietf.org>
CC: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>, "Eggert, Lars (lars@netapp.com)" <lars@netapp.com>, "'mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch'" <mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch>, "De Schepper, Koen (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <koen.de_schepper@nokia-bell-labs.com>, "Bob Briscoe (research@bobbriscoe.net)" <research@bobbriscoe.net>, marcelo bagnulo braun <marcelo@it.uc3m.es>, Piers O'Hanlon <piers.ohanlon@cs.ox.ac.uk>, Praveen Balasubramanian <pravb@microsoft.com>, Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
Subject: ECN in QUIC
Thread-Topic: ECN in QUIC
Thread-Index: AdMWaIZN+ofkuQeuQOGGa2om9/ikzQ==
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 09:33:36 +0000
Message-ID: <AM3PR07MB34048E916A7B18695313171C2820@AM3PR07MB340.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [192.176.1.87]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM3PR07MB1060; 6:wnj0EF/XWD7ATNTqQaIGdQv+Au+Y4odDAhXCf2Ka4+FHA0bgOJQxzXSdS6lPX9NVfJeKofkp0ItZ3B4cHbTA8ujrcCcK22cg+3uvR9xTl7Tflry2dAkWxW1lFvVzNMAEmo5JQhIc6TxTfnixL3D+OFjTAbLmgeZweWZTc4kX8yvUelXl85xJckn+fKmllxedQ7hpfcR7j0ugp8H0fj1gsJSemdqENVwULWiSH21e4bKVAjjrzMo6T+S+W+44aPcI6OwU1dXBbrCA6UOKlNfNhXbYtjqgMuVx4+V1Nxd6lPXOdFHPSC3522j9DjQe/wrOVkI8MpSkX/g90zOMx08d9w==; 5:DE0R7vZr9Hi5zrAI9ntUWTbBMBD1BBvTvXD0g+h728xHII0limXz+UHZACE3zCJIBQKKjaEwtrgS6vv/e8wns/rKKQk8xyt8bwhakqNxBvmtR/9qO8KVMHq3lxG0TLz2cAPxQ5FOl9ZWMGJvHaEA9Q==; 24:w30q0qS4fFifR6OYY1g2ymXV9WDkrjgiSn9Mgr6Xst0PcRL5Xqv8F2VQ5YIH1WJ2x4iysvyZo4a2gsaxPodng3Q2rYRDWM4WV9p97QYjZgc=; 7:Zh0CodwiUZzo7ANcjyOiwF+pVGe4jQAbXGe3Ls5OKDfrZi8nvEgPipSsmSo/S9zw2b2OUoFnizWZhPRkyhP+wqSWD2aTDjq9xlGznRjsLPunPZ8J5f3dY3UiDZR8nflEB6TNtZpIKHIm+jHvNi9zze8+E822Qy2Vs3kzdvRDEN/ZyK/8TWcCSwJggPPP8lA1dzBq4AuV8voCOPpX+Gb2LZubOrFVDRcxlxrO4pqCmTE=
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9db40fbd-e48a-42ce-dee7-08d4e489df0b
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(300000500095)(300135000095)(300000501095)(300135300095)(22001)(300000502095)(300135100095)(2017030254152)(300000503095)(300135400095)(2017052603156)(201703131423075)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(300000504095)(300135200095)(300000505095)(300135600095)(300000506095)(300135500095); SRVR:AM3PR07MB1060;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM3PR07MB1060:
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(37575265505322)(202460600054446)(21748063052155);
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <AM3PR07MB1060E32B18386485D3228939C2820@AM3PR07MB1060.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(6040450)(601004)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(93006095)(93001095)(100000703101)(100105400095)(10201501046)(3002001)(6041248)(20161123560025)(20161123564025)(20161123562025)(201703131423075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123558100)(20161123555025)(6072148)(201708071742011)(100000704101)(100105200095)(100000705101)(100105500095); SRVR:AM3PR07MB1060; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:AM3PR07MB1060;
x-forefront-prvs: 0401647B7F
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(39860400002)(189002)(199003)(606006)(19609705001)(7696004)(2906002)(101416001)(189998001)(9326002)(7116003)(6116002)(3846002)(74316002)(8676002)(5660300001)(478600001)(102836003)(790700001)(3480700004)(6916009)(7736002)(105586002)(106356001)(81156014)(81166006)(6506006)(8936002)(6436002)(53936002)(33656002)(55016002)(50986999)(2900100001)(25786009)(86362001)(236005)(54356999)(3660700001)(6306002)(9686003)(4326008)(110136004)(54896002)(99286003)(8666007)(54906002)(3280700002)(107886003)(5250100002)(68736007)(66066001)(966005)(14454004)(97736004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:AM3PR07MB1060; H:AM3PR07MB340.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com;
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM3PR07MB34048E916A7B18695313171C2820AM3PR07MB340eurprd_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Aug 2017 09:33:36.8582 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM3PR07MB1060
X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02Sa0iTURjHOXsvvlqD45r6aImyytBwqUXsQ0leiBckCCK8BLZlbyXOC3tN mvUhxWm5WQYrLylesvKCUCo5SVwOFf2QrYu3wvulixAhtpGhtu1d4Lff+f+f8z/P83AYQrJI BTDpWbmcJkulltFeZFVSd0p4rrcxOWKsz1cxZHsqUnxbNZAK3XIrrXjRZiQVHcWdlGLVsIgU hvpdivlHhegUw/6YtVLs5p1XJNvU9EfE2iZeUqzOtOnBVq6t02yhrZFmh379ps8yKV4nLnPq 9DxOcyRa6XXtwXgBnWNT3ijaDriNBs6XIk8G8DGwfpmkSpEXI8EDCPRVjSLhMIyg+cNH0nkg cRkB5tdWt1Mhgjn7BHLel+B5BPafoU6m8QlosdhduhSHQcfgU1cugY0klM8skE5jD5ZCa7uJ Eor84ee6zqEzDpZD2TLtRBIfhJn5EGeFGKfA9HaXKxLhQJi1z7hSCOwHn5fqRMIIGJp63xEC +8D3xS3KGQM4GJo2/QU5ED7U6ZGzG8DFHvDE0IkE4wzUWDYIwVgQgblL5w4KgzdzOnfRBTAO ldICZ0DPjw1SuPCRgp6KZXcX+8BaNOp+Yo6CaVMxIWyIg+ftOvcIabA2VUYJiwiA6U93UTkK rd4xkcDZsFb9hq52bcAbRqqWSEGXw+RDIy3wYXjWsEoIHA6VWxZyp16PPFqRD8/xlzKvRkXJ OU16Gs9nZ8mzuNwO5Ph6/V1/I0zo+9cYC8IMku0W+zPGZAmlyuO1mRYEDCGTirXYIYkvq7T5 nCb7oua6muMtaC9DyvzEMX3WJAm+qsrlMjguh9P8d0WMp+NvJeccKjz5yghts/bB2qIMfXPC mCVvc/xxYlC+obskZFmZw+8vUd86vdLCSsWRBcpJHxxcSybl10ePDOyZqu7vCxmNZ9RtqXSc 0rd3dC7kyvHwIHP0iHg49u29c20FLJ3YkBCrvxn995n2mPJovPZA3opvXE1qT0HJe/P95iRW RvLXVJFhhIZX/QOtittpdgMAAA==
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/jInAwBvEGWiL1pCHqbmnixsPWmk>
X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group <quic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 09:33:45 -0000
Hi Finally back from vacation, and very grateful for the support to continue the work to add ECN in QUIC. Just to recap.. there were two main topics raised at the meeting 1) ECN info in ACK frame or in dedicated frame : There were concerns about adding extra complexity in an already potentially complex ACK frame, one can have differing opinions about the complexity but can understand the concerns. As far as I am concerned, a separate frame type for ECN is possible, possibly one need to add information about the amount of not-ECT marked packets as well to keep the signaling robust, this needs further investigation though. One concern with a separate ECN frame is that it becomes a not-implemented or optional feature, is there any reason to be worried about this ? 2) More detailed ECN information : Earlier versions of the ECN in QUIC draft (see https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-johansson-quic-ecn-01.txt ) provided with examples. We (Myself, Koen, Mirja and Praveen) discussed this and we could not come up with any use case where it is beneficial to know exactly how each packet is ECN marked. I know that this kind of detailed ECN information is suggested for the generic feedback for RMCAT and I personally have a problem to see the gain with the detailed ECN information also here. Input from others is very welcome here. There are a consequences with detailed ECN marking information. a) necessary to correlate with the list of transmitted packets, this increases amount of code on sender side, not sure of that is a large concern as lookup is anyway needed to process incoming ACKs b) necessary to embed ECN information in ACK frame ?, at least this was my conclusion when I devised the detailed ECN marking info in the 01 version of the draft. Comments are welcome /Ingemar ================================== Ingemar Johansson M.Sc. Master Researcher Ericsson AB Wireless Access Networks Labratoriegränd 11 971 28, Luleå, Sweden Phone +46-1071 43042 SMS/MMS +46-73 078 3289 ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com<mailto:ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> www.ericsson.com A mistake is to commit a misunderstanding Bob Dylan ==================================
- ECN in QUIC Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: ECN in QUIC Colin Perkins
- RE: ECN in QUIC Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: ECN in QUIC Ian Swett
- RE: ECN in QUIC Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: ECN in QUIC Ian Swett
- Re: ECN in QUIC Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: ECN in QUIC Frank Kastenholz
- Re: ECN in QUIC Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: ECN in QUIC Brian Trammell (IETF)
- RE: ECN in QUIC Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: ECN in QUIC Christian Huitema
- Re: ECN in QUIC Jana Iyengar
- Re: ECN in QUIC Christian Huitema
- Re: ECN in QUIC Colin Perkins
- RE: ECN in QUIC Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: ECN in QUIC Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: ECN in QUIC Gorry Fairhurst
- RE: ECN in QUIC Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: ECN in QUIC Jana Iyengar
- RE: ECN in QUIC Ingemar Johansson S