Re: The first octet
Ian Swett <ianswett@google.com> Wed, 08 August 2018 13:57 UTC
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From: Ian Swett <ianswett@google.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 09:56:52 -0400
Message-ID: <CAKcm_gP99yXctFRe7mZwabOeBN-KkknVRu3_4xewK4T4MXzZ-w@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: The first octet
To: Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com>
Cc: alexandre.ferrieux@orange.com, IETF QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>, Kazuho Oku <kazuhooku@gmail.com>
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Thanks Roni, agreed, let's focus on the issues Martin raised. On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 9:55 AM Roni Even (A) <roni.even@huawei.com> wrote: > Hi, > In London the spin bit and VEC were not discussed in the session, my take > from the offline discussions we had was that currently we experimented with > good results only the spin bit. It also seemed that the current VEC as > proposed in Brians's draft is not good enough and we intend to look at > other algorithms that will provide better results for packet loss using the > 2 bits. > I think that this discussion is pre mature and that it should be discussed > in the future > Roni > > -----Original Message----- > From: QUIC [mailto:quic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > alexandre.ferrieux@orange.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 4:44 PM > To: Ian Swett > Cc: IETF QUIC WG; Martin Thomson; Kazuho Oku > Subject: Re: The first octet > > Sure: > > - spin+VEC are documented in draft-trammel-spin-03 > > - 7 bits for packet loss were presented at > http://snaggletooth.akam.ai/IETF-101-HotRFC/10-Ferrieux.pdf > > Re "I'm curious why you'd even want them": please clarify which applies: > > (a) you recognize the criticality of loss location, but you have a > cleverer algorithm to do the same with fewer than 7 bits > > (b) you don't believe network operators need to locate losses > > > On 08/08/18 15:29, Ian Swett wrote: > > I'm having a hard time understanding why you'd need 7 bits to measure > > packet > > loss(1 seems sufficient in most cases), can you send a link to the > > spin + VEC and 7 bit proposals you mentioned? > > > > I'll also note I think the chances the WG will agree to 7 bits is > > extremely close to 0, but I'm curious why you'd even want them. > > > > On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 9:22 AM <alexandre.ferrieux@orange.com > > <mailto:alexandre.ferrieux@orange.com>> wrote: > > > > On 08/08/18 12:05, Martin Thomson wrote: > > > > > > I know you discussed taking more bits and even bytes, but the case > > > hasn't been made in this working group to my knowledge. I > certainly > > > don't think that's justified; it improved fidelity of > measurements, > > > but the spin bit appears to be pretty good at that without the > extra > > > overheads. > > > > Fidelity is indeed the criterion to decide 1 (spin bit) vs 3 (spin > bit + VEC) > > for RTT measurements, right. > > > > However, measurements also include packet loss, which is typically > more > > widespread than delay in big pipes (which don't have enough RAM to > keep a > > packet > > for too long at line rate). And spin+VEC do not address packet loss > at all, > > hence our 7-bit spin counter proposal shown in London. > > > > I admit that 7 is hefty if you're starting from Christian's songle > spin bit ; > > however: > > > > - I assume nobody will emit any doubt about the criticality of > > non-delay-related (big pipe) loss location. Unless everybody here > has perfect > > networks and ideal reporting, that is. > > > > - Stick the spin bit on top of these 7, make that an extra > easurement > > byte and > > you've got your three spare bits again in the first byte. > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > ___________________________________________________ > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous > avez recu > > ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les > messages > > electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, > deforme ou > > falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or > privileged > > information that may be protected by law; > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender > and > > delete this message and its attachments. > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that > have been > > modified, changed or falsified. > > Thank you. > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, > exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par > erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les > pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou > falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged > information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, > used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and > delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been > modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > >
- The first octet Martin Thomson
- Re: The first octet Dirkjan Ochtman
- Re: The first octet Martin Thomson
- Re: The first octet Christian Huitema
- Re: The first octet Christian Huitema
- Re: The first octet Jana Iyengar
- RE: The first octet Mike Bishop
- Re: The first octet Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: The first octet Kazuho Oku
- Re: The first octet Martin Thomson
- Re: The first octet Kazuho Oku
- Re: The first octet alexandre.ferrieux
- Re: The first octet Colin Perkins
- Re: The first octet Martin Thomson
- Re: The first octet Martin Thomson
- Re: The first octet alexandre.ferrieux
- Re: The first octet Ian Swett
- RE: The first octet Roni Even (A)
- Re: The first octet alexandre.ferrieux
- RE: The first octet Roni Even (A)
- Re: The first octet Ian Swett
- RE: The first octet Roni Even (A)
- Re: The first octet Kazuho Oku
- Re: The first octet Brian Trammell (IETF)