IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Rats] security-level claim (was Re: WGLC for https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rats-eat) - CC example

"Smith, Ned" <ned.smith@intel.com> Mon, 06 June 2022 16:02 UTC

Return-Path: <ned.smith@intel.com>
X-Original-To: rats@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rats@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FB7FC14CF09 for <rats@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 6 Jun 2022 09:02:17 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.85
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.85 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.745, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=intel.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oo2sMRXoaLYe for <rats@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 6 Jun 2022 09:02:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mga06.intel.com (mga06b.intel.com [134.134.136.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2ECC1C14F74B for <rats@ietf.org>; Mon, 6 Jun 2022 09:02:13 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=intel.com; i=@intel.com; q=dns/txt; s=Intel; t=1654531333; x=1686067333; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=d29WrpCi15ZWt5WaLMhCL0aK2t7xGbwVcKyIGS0tIBI=; b=JqU6JEAMbtRCWU9RbMkN0px1L4LMErITGPUEnXM9RgCcgVw1urva4VBL YkC163gZp4o4kCacvy5xjLboBFc5sGc0B6iXS4Dm9f3Jbn2gQhAwokrAh Z+z9L54jysKPdXAzCtg4LFevS+G+FPG81Z+aF7zdCzlqiZMCX+LR5sO97 B5lvw+69ZB58l5DiB24/5PXeBNMT7NGZW51nwGvUbXPYGgzPxXVw71RmC YYYUynKzmbXNw6SkhX4vCiK3ENftYQ+vJKBXG3rRcJJXHslNBeFF9yuvJ PeynlxpyOnYO9vy7hzr4hx8UmVwUXXgNud5nPL+8ka3RXb00sTOZAcLWE g==;
X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="6400,9594,10370"; a="337653592"
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.91,280,1647327600"; d="scan'208,217";a="337653592"
Received: from orsmga007.jf.intel.com ([10.7.209.58]) by orsmga104.jf.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 06 Jun 2022 08:41:41 -0700
X-ExtLoop1: 1
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.91,280,1647327600"; d="scan'208,217";a="579206334"
Received: from orsmsx605.amr.corp.intel.com ([10.22.229.18]) by orsmga007.jf.intel.com with ESMTP; 06 Jun 2022 08:41:41 -0700
Received: from orsmsx608.amr.corp.intel.com (10.22.229.21) by ORSMSX605.amr.corp.intel.com (10.22.229.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.27; Mon, 6 Jun 2022 08:41:41 -0700
Received: from orsmsx610.amr.corp.intel.com (10.22.229.23) by ORSMSX608.amr.corp.intel.com (10.22.229.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.27; Mon, 6 Jun 2022 08:41:40 -0700
Received: from orsedg603.ED.cps.intel.com (10.7.248.4) by orsmsx610.amr.corp.intel.com (10.22.229.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2308.27 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 6 Jun 2022 08:41:40 -0700
Received: from NAM12-MW2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.66.47) by edgegateway.intel.com (134.134.137.100) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.2308.27; Mon, 6 Jun 2022 08:41:40 -0700
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=iqr1Wy7tpDjb5tOugaKkDBwfYpg98Gg9qAnjuZok74eN1dgNK0/IYkDBJQpYN/g0RPSRYvsYaj61bUGDLYZFvPTvzxM2Qno5puGa65eCdYThEapHmjYJYL+hFEkEDL43QbG1JziY6j3o7tb6QXWEvt3dCUazl5qTC6OE9C8gKQZHYlVJWuDe5dVQmeNzWDmme03o0NfIITccu9b8GN0Pushz2B+gRhEW0/hTEej/9lcM1BQJUM8gmZ9RE+sfHOfAgKypVH7HJlC1Wuehdk6f9dtZDhGx9wH9WbXUyMXqq0ilH/V1PdjcQFntBJZJpDErxfPJ6q7l1NfEDL6sYrDfVw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=d29WrpCi15ZWt5WaLMhCL0aK2t7xGbwVcKyIGS0tIBI=; b=Vt+6LUUjBqyS/LaiGsZfqT6oKvjU++O3OPK6PyNWnDvEYD+hwNdD7LH5ByzgHxBTWC48+5FD9N+OqxLCfh+migo3aw/VeTk2yGtPIA3+MCdeAGQhUlxqcR5xCNXEeGj0C3NN8p5H6NQfMxLG9tPdhzPOS7Z49xHEV8sFc3Bs/U6ffl1hfy2Z719kabnWb5HBWODDd9DWORb6yEz7QFKnxnG4ROjnZ+34hXEeAolXEYy94FGaPZMZeoVSv+YMdmYY11CcNSlBNC7ABkfE265bqzFooUUVDAnDRvs8laqy4KDfsY9OVh+c0SK6wTMqb2Gqi1SG/52aQZJh94tXPUWPFw==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=intel.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=intel.com; dkim=pass header.d=intel.com; arc=none
Received: from CO1PR11MB5169.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:303:95::19) by DM5PR11MB0011.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:4:6b::29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5314.13; Mon, 6 Jun 2022 15:41:39 +0000
Received: from CO1PR11MB5169.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5dfe:31c7:a62a:d8b8]) by CO1PR11MB5169.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5dfe:31c7:a62a:d8b8%3]) with mapi id 15.20.5314.019; Mon, 6 Jun 2022 15:41:39 +0000
From: "Smith, Ned" <ned.smith@intel.com>
To: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@island-resort.com>
CC: Giridhar Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>, "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Rats] security-level claim (was Re: WGLC for https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rats-eat) - CC example
Thread-Index: AQHYebvpeU/SVIayrUyX1KYp4Y1kVA==
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2022 15:41:38 +0000
Message-ID: <A066F034-F2DC-4DDB-9279-DA45C158D1F4@intel.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.61.22050700
authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=intel.com;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 1fa21697-4668-472b-bf08-08da47d30be8
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR11MB0011:EE_
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <DM5PR11MB00117C8202E641913BF15B35E5A29@DM5PR11MB0011.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:CO1PR11MB5169.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230001)(366004)(82960400001)(36756003)(54906003)(6916009)(316002)(66476007)(66556008)(66446008)(2906002)(38070700005)(64756008)(66946007)(8676002)(4326008)(76116006)(33656002)(71200400001)(186003)(122000001)(2616005)(15650500001)(6506007)(53546011)(6512007)(86362001)(26005)(508600001)(6486002)(966005)(38100700002)(5660300002)(83380400001)(8936002)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A066F034F2DC4DDB9279DA45C158D1F4intelcom_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CO1PR11MB5169.namprd11.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1fa21697-4668-472b-bf08-08da47d30be8
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Jun 2022 15:41:38.9495 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 46c98d88-e344-4ed4-8496-4ed7712e255d
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: diP8mfRZoP3sItdPsb3iRmq64Tcgyzr3EWudKcxG+GvnEllgGJ3M6Mb9qr4zVjhXb4YCXodYDgeC2higNGwwIg==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR11MB0011
X-OriginatorOrg: intel.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/-gsmZ2jGyG1iD9pm93KVB8SMYSQ>
Subject: Re: [Rats] security-level claim (was Re: WGLC for https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rats-eat) - CC example
X-BeenThere: rats@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Remote ATtestation procedureS <rats.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rats>, <mailto:rats-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rats/>
List-Post: <mailto:rats@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rats-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats>, <mailto:rats-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2022 16:02:17 -0000

I used common criteria as an example. There are other industry examples of data structures that conceptually capture a security level such as FIPS 140-3 and Orange Book information labels. These structures are meaningful in the contexts in which they are defined. The security-level claim in EAT may have a similar context. But if it does, the document that explains it should be cited. Without an explicitly defined context, people are left to assume. Maybe this is why some see value while others don’t? If there is ambiguity surrounding its meaning then there won’t be meaningful interoperability.

The main question the EAT authors should consider is whether or not keeping security-level in this revision is worth holding up standardizing the other claims that are less controversial.

-Ned
From: RATS <rats-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Laurence Lundblade <lgl@island-resort.com>
Date: Sunday, June 5, 2022 at 1:00 PM
To: "Smith, Ned" <ned.smith@intel.com>
Cc: Giridhar Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>, "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Rats] security-level claim (was Re: WGLC for https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rats-eat)




On Jun 3, 2022, at 6:38 PM, Smith, Ned <ned.smith@intel.com<mailto:ned.smith@intel.com>> wrote:

The Attester (as a device) can’t perform a common criteria evaluation (AFAIK), it takes a human at least to do some of the evaluation.

Common Criteria takes many people many months, sometimes years. Probably the minimum cost for most targets is $1 million. It requires a threat analysis of the target by humans. But it is probably the most thorough and solid certification program out there. Certainly miles beyond FIPS is actually providing assurance.



The evaluation result can be encoded in electronic form as a claim. The evaluation lab that did the analysis could use their key to sign the electronic claim thereby making it into an Endorsement.

Security-level is definitely NOT about certification.

Text in draft-13 is clear that DLOA’s are what you use for certifications.

LL

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email