Re: [Rats] Follow-up CoRIM: Horn clauses

Hi Henk,

On 09.04.24 09:10, Henk Birkholz wrote:
> Hi Usama,
>
> sorry for my latency, I was PTO in Australia for a while after IETF 
> 119. Ned is currently also PTO and was the presenter.
>
> Horn Clauses must have been a topic of CoRIM editors meetings when I 
> was PTO. 
My personal understanding so far is that no editor other than Ned has 
even any vague clue about how the Horn clause stuff is relevant to the 
draft, how the Horn clauses are generated etc.
> There obviously is no substantial effect on any I-D text today. There 
> is nothing you are missing out on. 
There is definitely a lot of stuff going on in these backdoor meetings 
that I am (as well as the WG is) missing out on, e.g., see my 
preliminary questions in the thread below.
> Next CoRIM editors meeting occurs again this Wed.
>
Does Ned still manage to join these meetings? If not, could one of the 
editors confirm that he has answers to at least some of my questions? I 
think in the open spirit of IETF, joining these meetings should NOT be 
the ONLY way to get information.
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/4182gmZDaWbPcNzoC7zRRUYQ0eM/
>
> My personal (and pretty much not unbiased) perception is that nobody 
> is actively ignoring you, 
When I say transparency, I mean summarizing the discussions in these 
backdoor meetings back to the mailing list. This was already mentioned 
more than a couple of months ago, and has nothing to do with "ignoring 
me". I presented my related work at HCVS last weekend and I was 
interested in discussing this topic also with the Horn clauses experts.
> but rather that a lot of people involved are on PTO. Please give Ned 
> the time to return, then to put out the dayjob little fires 
> everywhere, and then come back to this topic.
>
Do you know when Ned finishes PTO stuff?

> Does that sound fine to you?
>
depends how long is the PTO...

Best Regards,

Usama

>
> Viele Grüße,
>
> Henk
>
> On 22.03.24 06:05, Muhammad Usama Sardar wrote:
>> None of the two issues pointed below mention Horn clauses. Also, the 
>> CoRIM meeting this week was cancelled. Some preliminary questions for 
>> better understanding:
>>
>>   * How are "Horn clauses" relevant to the CoRIM draft? I don't fully
>>     understand the link of the CoRIM draft to Horn clauses.
>>   * How are the Horn clauses generated?
>>   * What are the assumptions/facts?
>>   * Which rule engine do you plan to use to analyze the Horn clauses?
>>
>> We have some experience with Horn clauses, which will likely be 
>> helpful here, e.g., I have experience with ProVerif which is based on 
>> Horn clauses, and my colleagues have developed "Nemo" tool [1].
>>
>> Since CoRIM is a WG document, could the editors and contributors 
>> please make a good-will effort to summarize the discussions on these 
>> meetings to the WG? Interested WG members would then get a chance 
>> to contribute and/or comment. This was already pointed out a couple 
>> of months ago [2], but I don't see any CoRIM update provided to the 
>> mailing list since then. I very much like the updates from PKIX 
>> attestation, e.g., [3].
>>
>> [1] https://iccl.inf.tu-dresden.de/web/Inproceedings3354
>>
>> [2] 
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/OwTI-PfFpLXHKf3IhoNpayv3m10/
>>
>> [3] 
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/8X3N9e7-phCjDwGacWJrDoapeRE/
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Usama
>>
>> On 19.03.24 13:46, Yogesh Deshpande wrote:
>>> Hi Usama,
>>>
>>> Some of the linked github issues where the discussions happened is 
>>> given below:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/draft-ietf-rats-corim/issues/197
>>>
>>> https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/draft-ietf-rats-corim/issues/142
>>>
>>> Feel free to join CoRIM Meetings, I have forwarded you the invite.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Yogesh
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Muhammad Usama Sardar<muhammad_usama.sardar@tu-dresden.de>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 12:05 PM
>>> To: Yogesh Deshpande<Yogesh.Deshpande@arm.com>
>>> Cc:rats@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Rats] Follow-up CoRIM: Horn clauses
>>>
>>> Hi Yogesh,
>>>
>>> Thanks. Could you point me to the recording and minutes of the 
>>> relevant CoRIM team meeting where it was discussed?
>>>
>>> Usama
>>>
>>> On 19.03.24 12:53, Yogesh Deshpande wrote:
>>>> Hello Usama,
>>>>
>>>> This was only discussed recently in one of our CoRIM team 
>>>> meetings(has just been initiated), hence you do not find any update 
>>>> on the same in any of the IETF drafts.
>>>>
>>>> In the course of time, as part of CoRIM Verifier simplification
>>>> activity, concepts from this presentation will make its space into 
>>>> the draft.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Yogesh Deshpande
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: RATS<rats-bounces@ietf.org>  On Behalf Of Muhammad Usama Sardar
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 11:43 AM
>>>> To:rats@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: [Rats] Follow-up CoRIM: Horn clauses
>>>>
>>>> Dear Ned and CoRIM team,
>>>>
>>>> Horn clauses [1, slide 6] were mentioned yesterday in the meeting.
>>>> Surprisingly, I don't see any relevant discussion in any of the two 
>>>> relevant drafts [2,3]. Where can I find more details about how the 
>>>> Horn clauses are generated for any of these drafts? What are the 
>>>> assumptions/facts? etc.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Usama
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/119/materials/slides-119-rats-att
>>>> estation-verifier-theory-of-operation
>>>>
>>>> [2]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-corim/
>>>>
>>>> [3]
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cds-rats-intel-corim-profile/
>>
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