Re: [Rats] Follow-up CoRIM: Horn clauses

I agree with Usama that summarizing the discussions happening in the side-meetings would be beneficial for working group participants.

Ciao

Hannes

Am 09.04.2024 um 17:27 schrieb Muhammad Usama Sardar:

Hi Henk, 

On 09.04.24 09:10, Henk Birkholz wrote: 

Hi Usama, 

sorry for my latency, I was PTO in Australia for a while after IETF 119. Ned is currently also PTO and was the presenter. 

Horn Clauses must have been a topic of CoRIM editors meetings when I was PTO. 

My personal understanding so far is that no editor other than Ned has even any vague clue about how the Horn clause stuff is relevant to the draft, how the Horn clauses are generated etc. 

There obviously is no substantial effect on any I-D text today. There is nothing you are missing out on. 

There is definitely a lot of stuff going on in these backdoor meetings that I am (as well as the WG is) missing out on, e.g., see my preliminary questions in the thread below. 

Next CoRIM editors meeting occurs again this Wed. 

Does Ned still manage to join these meetings? If not, could one of the editors confirm that he has answers to at least some of my questions? I think in the open spirit of IETF, joining these meetings should NOT be the ONLY way to get information. 

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/4182gmZDaWbPcNzoC7zRRUYQ0eM/ 

My personal (and pretty much not unbiased) perception is that nobody is actively ignoring you, 

When I say transparency, I mean summarizing the discussions in these backdoor meetings back to the mailing list. This was already mentioned more than a couple of months ago, and has nothing to do with "ignoring me". I presented my related work at HCVS last weekend and I was interested in discussing this topic also with the Horn clauses experts. 

but rather that a lot of people involved are on PTO. Please give Ned the time to return, then to put out the dayjob little fires everywhere, and then come back to this topic. 

Do you know when Ned finishes PTO stuff? 

Does that sound fine to you? 

depends how long is the PTO... 

Best Regards, 

Usama 

Viele Grüße, 

Henk 

On 22.03.24 06:05, Muhammad Usama Sardar wrote: 

None of the two issues pointed below mention Horn clauses. Also, the CoRIM meeting this week was cancelled. Some preliminary questions for better understanding: 

  * How are "Horn clauses" relevant to the CoRIM draft? I don't fully 
    understand the link of the CoRIM draft to Horn clauses. 
  * How are the Horn clauses generated? 
  * What are the assumptions/facts? 
  * Which rule engine do you plan to use to analyze the Horn clauses? 

We have some experience with Horn clauses, which will likely be helpful here, e.g., I have experience with ProVerif which is based on Horn clauses, and my colleagues have developed "Nemo" tool [1]. 

Since CoRIM is a WG document, could the editors and contributors please make a good-will effort to summarize the discussions on these meetings to the WG? Interested WG members would then get a chance to contribute and/or comment. This was already pointed out a couple of months ago [2], but I don't see any CoRIM update provided to the mailing list since then. I very much like the updates from PKIX attestation, e.g., [3]. 

[1] https://iccl.inf.tu-dresden.de/web/Inproceedings3354 

[2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/OwTI-PfFpLXHKf3IhoNpayv3m10/ 

[3] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/8X3N9e7-phCjDwGacWJrDoapeRE/ 

Thanks, 

Usama 

On 19.03.24 13:46, Yogesh Deshpande wrote: 

Hi Usama, 

Some of the linked github issues where the discussions happened is given below: 

https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/draft-ietf-rats-corim/issues/197 

https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/draft-ietf-rats-corim/issues/142 

Feel free to join CoRIM Meetings, I have forwarded you the invite. 

Regards, 
Yogesh 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Muhammad Usama Sardar <mailto:muhammad_usama.sardar@tu-dresden.de> <muhammad_usama.sardar@tu-dresden.de> 
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 12:05 PM 
To: Yogesh Deshpande <mailto:Yogesh.Deshpande@arm.com> <Yogesh.Deshpande@arm.com> 
Cc:rats@ietf.org <mailto:Cc:rats@ietf.org>  
Subject: Re: [Rats] Follow-up CoRIM: Horn clauses 

Hi Yogesh, 

Thanks. Could you point me to the recording and minutes of the relevant CoRIM team meeting where it was discussed? 

Usama 

On 19.03.24 12:53, Yogesh Deshpande wrote: 

Hello Usama, 

This was only discussed recently in one of our CoRIM team meetings(has just been initiated), hence you do not find any update on the same in any of the IETF drafts. 

In the course of time, as part of CoRIM Verifier simplification 
activity, concepts from this presentation will make its space into the draft. 

Regards, 
Yogesh Deshpande 

-----Original Message----- 
From: RATS <mailto:rats-bounces@ietf.org> <rats-bounces@ietf.org>  On Behalf Of Muhammad Usama Sardar 
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 11:43 AM 
To:rats@ietf.org <mailto:To:rats@ietf.org>  
Subject: [Rats] Follow-up CoRIM: Horn clauses 

Dear Ned and CoRIM team, 

Horn clauses [1, slide 6] were mentioned yesterday in the meeting. 
Surprisingly, I don't see any relevant discussion in any of the two relevant drafts [2,3]. Where can I find more details about how the Horn clauses are generated for any of these drafts? What are the assumptions/facts? etc. 

Thanks, 

Usama 

[1] 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/119/materials/slides-119-rats-att 
estation-verifier-theory-of-operation 

[2]https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rats-corim/ 

[3] 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cds-rats-intel-corim-profile/ 

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