Re: [re-ECN] Two questions about CONEX

Bob Briscoe <rbriscoe@jungle.bt.co.uk> Mon, 17 May 2010 16:50 UTC

Return-Path: <rbriscoe@jungle.bt.co.uk>
X-Original-To: re-ecn@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: re-ecn@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B547C3A6950 for <re-ecn@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 17 May 2010 09:50:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.114
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.114 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.369, BAYES_50=0.001, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y1QgZW-Q7aqD for <re-ecn@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 17 May 2010 09:50:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp4.smtp.bt.com (smtp4.smtp.bt.com [217.32.164.151]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04CF73A68A3 for <re-ecn@ietf.org>; Mon, 17 May 2010 09:50:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from i2kc06-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net ([193.113.197.70]) by smtp4.smtp.bt.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 17 May 2010 17:50:16 +0100
Received: from cbibipnt05.iuser.iroot.adidom.com ([147.149.196.177]) by i2kc06-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 17 May 2010 17:50:15 +0100
Received: From bagheera.jungle.bt.co.uk ([132.146.168.158]) by cbibipnt05.iuser.iroot.adidom.com (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a P0803.399); id 127411501597; Mon, 17 May 2010 17:50:15 +0100
Received: from MUT.jungle.bt.co.uk ([10.215.130.87]) by bagheera.jungle.bt.co.uk (8.13.5/8.12.8) with ESMTP id o4HGoD8q001221; Mon, 17 May 2010 17:50:13 +0100
Message-Id: <201005171650.o4HGoD8q001221@bagheera.jungle.bt.co.uk>
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9
Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 17:50:16 +0100
To: Kevin Mason <Kevin.Mason@telecom.co.nz>
From: Bob Briscoe <rbriscoe@jungle.bt.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <563C162F43D1B14E9FD2BC0A776C1E912728426831@WNEXMBX01.telec om.tcnz.net>
References: <4BE5039A.5040003@cisco.com> <EE00404438E9444D90AEA84210DC406707FB24@pacdcexcmb05.cable.comcast.com> <4BE5A010.3000402@cisco.com> <EE00404438E9444D90AEA84210DC406707FB25@pacdcexcmb05.cable.comcast.com> <563C162F43D1B14E9FD2BC0A776C1E912728426831@WNEXMBX01.telecom.tcnz.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 132.146.168.158
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 May 2010 16:50:16.0181 (UTC) FILETIME=[06AB3250:01CAF5E1]
Cc: "re-ecn@ietf.org" <re-ecn@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [re-ECN] Two questions about CONEX
X-BeenThere: re-ecn@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: re-inserted explicit congestion notification <re-ecn.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/re-ecn>, <mailto:re-ecn-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/re-ecn>
List-Post: <mailto:re-ecn@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:re-ecn-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/re-ecn>, <mailto:re-ecn-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 16:50:42 -0000

Kevin,

At 23:56 09/05/2010, Kevin Mason wrote:
> >From a simple transport overhead view, at what point is adding any 
> extension header (assuming that is the IPv6 approach) less 
> efficient than putting the information is a separate packet.
>
>For some protocol a separate packet might be needed anyway if the 
>frequency of backward responses inherent in the protocol in use is 
>too low for the information to be usefully acted on. I suspect any 
>application using such a protocol will be highly inelastic and would 
>need some higher layer longer duration controls in place to avoid 
>congestion impacts anyway.

We deliberately designed re-ECN so that an e2e transport with 
infrequent feedback suffers the consequences of the extra risk it 
takes. This encourages it to
- either use sufficient feedback,
- or, in the absence of sufficient feedback, for its increases in 
sending rate to be more cautious.

Cheers


Bob


________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe,                                BT Innovate & Design