Re: [Reap] [Emu] EAP - TLS 1.3

John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com> Fri, 01 December 2017 13:58 UTC

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From: John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com>
To: Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@ericsson.com>, Mohit Sethi M <mohit.m.sethi@ericsson.com>, "reap@ietf.org" <reap@ietf.org>, "saag@ietf.org" <saag@ietf.org>, "emu@ietf.org" <emu@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Reap] [Emu] EAP - TLS 1.3
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Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 13:57:58 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Reap] [Emu] EAP - TLS 1.3
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Hi Bernard,

On Thu, Nov 19, 2017, Bernard Aboba wrote:

>The big question is "Why not create a new EAP method"? 

>The overall intent seems to be to create an pre-shared key EAP method optimized for 5G,
>based on EAP-TLS v1.3.  

I don’t know why you have gotten the idea that the intent is pre-shared key authentication. 3GPP has no interest in EAP-TLS with pre-shared key authentication. 3GPP wants to use EAP-TLS with certificate authentication.

>Since the protocol described will not interoperate with any of the existing 2+ billion
>EAP-TLS devices, why reuse the EAP-TLS code point or EAP-TLS name?   What has been
>described is an entirely distinct authentication method, not a "clarification" to an
>existing specification.

>In fact, from how it has been described, it would appear that the new protocol is only for use
>with new devices supporting 5G and new 5G servers supporting the new method.  In which case,
>if the new method is not for general use on the Internet, why can't 3GPP just define the method >themselves and allocate their own private EAP type code? 

I don’t know why you has come to the conclusion that this would not interoperate with existing EAP-TLS devices. TLS 1.3 e.g. obsoletes TLS 1.2 but still interoperate just fine with all old versions of TLS. 3GPP plans to use EAP-TLS (RFC5216) with current versions of TLS. In the future, 3GPP (and probably many others) would like to use EAP-TLS with TLS 1.3.

3GPP has no special requirements when it comes to using EAP-TLS with TLS 1.3, and would like to be interoperable with all implementations of EAP-TLS with TLS 1.3. The major point with EAP-TLS is to use the TLS version negotiation, defining EAP-TLS with TLS 1.3 as a different code is not a good idea.

My view is that it is not clear how the key derivation is done when EAP-TLS is used with TLS 1.3. Non-interoperable implementations would not be good for the Internet. Furthermore, an implementation of EAP-TLS with TLS 1.3 would break a _large_ amount of MUSTs in RFC5126 as TLS 1.3 changes a lot from TLS 1.0 – 1.2. I think that an update to RFC5215 is needed irrespectively of 3GPP using EAP-TLS or not.

Cheers,
John