Re: [Rfc-markdown] Are there situations where markdown does NOT work for creating I-D's?

Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> Tue, 12 June 2018 14:33 UTC

Return-Path: <cabo@tzi.org>
X-Original-To: rfc-markdown@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rfc-markdown@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0EBB130E4B for <rfc-markdown@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 07:33:18 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.199
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bVcNZiW8tVPv for <rfc-markdown@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 07:33:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2011130F4A for <Rfc-markdown@ietf.org>; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 07:33:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de
Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5CEXCN5021857; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 16:33:12 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from [192.168.217.114] (p5DC7E3F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.227.243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 414sn35xV3zDX0L; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 16:33:11 +0200 (CEST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\))
From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
In-Reply-To: <478A6F00-B1D6-4A0A-8EE1-834B541D5089@isoc.org>
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 16:33:11 +0200
Cc: "Rfc-markdown@ietf.org" <Rfc-markdown@ietf.org>
X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 550506789.522758-6508f9ee346994fd05f8e06162ad8dcd
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <F1D9492B-199A-456C-B3B2-0A38F5D9E223@tzi.org>
References: <478A6F00-B1D6-4A0A-8EE1-834B541D5089@isoc.org>
To: Dan York <york@isoc.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rfc-markdown/07fu35MHpQwE8EaDVv2SdLnKT9w>
Subject: Re: [Rfc-markdown] Are there situations where markdown does NOT work for creating I-D's?
X-BeenThere: rfc-markdown@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26
Precedence: list
List-Id: "rfc-markdown is a discussion list for people writing I-Ds and RFCs in Markdown and the authors of the tools used for that." <rfc-markdown.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rfc-markdown>, <mailto:rfc-markdown-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rfc-markdown/>
List-Post: <mailto:rfc-markdown@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rfc-markdown-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-markdown>, <mailto:rfc-markdown-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:33:19 -0000

On Jun 12, 2018, at 15:38, Dan York <york@isoc.org> wrote:
> 
> One last question before my talk tonight...  have any of you found situations where markdown does NOT work for creating Internet Drafts?
> Were there situations where you needed to use XML instead of markdown?  

You can always insert snippets of XML into the markdown if that is needed (which is most often used for processing instructions).
You also get access to the attributes of XML elements using kramdown “IALs”.

> Or can you now do everything in markdown (variants) that you can do in xml2rfc?

Kramdown-rfc does not have support for certain elements, e.g. preludes/postludes of figures.
That is not a big problem for RFCXMLv2, as that doesn’t contain a lot of things that are useful beyond what’s obvious to do in markdown.
That will change a bit for RFCXMLv3.  Having your sources in markdown format is a great way to port them over to v3 without having to learn or change anything :-), but there will be new features in v3 (e.g., column/row spans in tables) that will require inventions beyond those that have been made for RFCXMLv2.  I have not done that work yet, so I can’t definitively say how the result will look like.

> All the drafts I have written lately have been relatively simple, basic text, so markdown was fine.

Same for me (and then, if it isn’t, I raise a feature request with the author of kramdown-rfc :-).

People like Julian use RFCXML as an element of a publishing pipeline — again, markdown can be a good initial format for something like that, but if your input to that publishing pipeline needs to be heavily marked up in the source, markdown doesn’t win you a lot.  But that is mostly relevant only for people who do document processing for a living or as a hobby…

Grüße, Carsten