[Rfced-future] CONCERN positions after RSWG discussion (draft-iab-rfcefdp-rfced-model)

Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com> Wed, 09 March 2022 20:07 UTC

Return-Path: <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 009333A0D7E; Wed, 9 Mar 2022 12:07:27 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.108
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uog_vaO2qY94; Wed, 9 Mar 2022 12:07:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ej1-x62b.google.com (mail-ej1-x62b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 355D33A0D6E; Wed, 9 Mar 2022 12:07:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-ej1-x62b.google.com with SMTP id qx21so7476711ejb.13; Wed, 09 Mar 2022 12:07:22 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=cI6TVrgR5MEoVRfoxFekyeFk/6TZIbsMLZPnftvm5gs=; b=JCXhdeG2/8AvN1DqHEvKCvgRqKhA0eKf27xpa2E/M7IFMzGBEcvQH3fKCiauC54q/n E6GMfsmKL8CG6pDQaPkzuHDWulMwkWyTe0nMinrWF4eA5USvhVKdWGwMPYPiug0YJ7DX v5DbXnnPqgO214rGvW0QROct3MnPc2gZAzsB26vvDEt9wTHP62S3z+0zld8mLd0TIC5i NdBCZlnaRhyal5IM/7KLS7ri0DwXOCokMPtW1kQnpbohDkqJnXdLYHCsEC2AMomPYoyZ M9GskxNCyOZqdG5S0XCotubhJUidJPZkItMby4kymY7Y8HMGAhZxhmsoGhdSVFv17ONP PdUA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=cI6TVrgR5MEoVRfoxFekyeFk/6TZIbsMLZPnftvm5gs=; b=pocpFkgC1SaxnwTB5njvHxeH9mmvuI+omN1f+3G0WOtPqc261odrCKgDmAttBMjP5L 6L4QB6GRKR31cn+cZBjFCO+sQmIAzloVZyzo7yU8Xx2/7BdtkQLN+peJS14V6FAYKqfZ OfX8f9WnSj3RQOIz6II0cyGhv3ZwElsOfkb3glOgaoz6OjDmp2MWCTNSGhM44CtVLptb 0zNpr6fYO/VpxAGC5mKp5DqtWAzZu+Bz9LStOB+xasjFB5VHVqfmbUs0OJ5JaOANi7C6 cyB79KK0SLVkzeb296GBVAp3atGaoWqKkFbgwzl3NjukeyjSNkFQyya6hZhj+q1donLS W5+A==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531gL7UVWr0DQWm/WYQKpybnhjsPuPCf4ihk4E/jJTPVaxJgu2LL vYsIBHjvoTDuyL01l2RzTF+uTP/OjwFxQizC1JHw2QOe
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwU+VmdfngR77D8k7vJp9l7dVeUnYpatEUCSfFb1lIzd8yp9Jfpnmr95WJp7mfll4sMGRfBlKJ80CIry7w2OWc=
X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:99c2:b0:6d7:4a6a:e35d with SMTP id s2-20020a17090699c200b006d74a6ae35dmr1278807ejn.633.1646856440150; Wed, 09 Mar 2022 12:07:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 9 Mar 2022 12:07:19 -0800
From: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2022 12:07:18 -0800
Message-ID: <CAMMESsyaoHCgz8SqWa6NH1A49dGNLkJ_CwqoKedxL8cBGpv99w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, The IAB <iab@iab.org>, rfced-future@iab.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rfced-future/91zOr-AS59w_jimpDogSQ97NoyA>
Subject: [Rfced-future] CONCERN positions after RSWG discussion (draft-iab-rfcefdp-rfced-model)
X-BeenThere: rfced-future@iab.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: RFC Editor Future Development Program <rfced-future.iab.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/options/rfced-future>, <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rfced-future/>
List-Post: <mailto:rfced-future@iab.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/rfced-future>, <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2022 20:07:27 -0000

Peter:

Hi!  Thanks for such a clear document!


One part of the workflow described in §3.2.2 makes me feel uneasy.
Bullet point 9 says this:

        Because RSAB members are expected to participate in the
        discussions within the RSWG and to raise any concerns and issues
        during those discussions, most CONCERN positions should not come
        as a surprise to the RSWG.

While the statement is true (the concerns and issues should not be a
surprise), it opens the door to "double jeopardy" [1].

Earlier bullets mention how, participating as individuals, "RSAB
members will raise any issues or concerns during the development of
the proposal, and not wait until the RSAB review period" (3), and how
a proposal advances when the RSWG chairs believe there is rough
consensus (4).  If the RSAB member raised an issue to the RSWG and
there was rough consensus not to address it (or another similar
outcome), why is the RSAB member allowed to bring up the issue *again*
in the form of a CONCERN position?

The document should explicitly mention that issues already raised and
discussed in the RSWG should not be brought up again as a CONCERN
position.


I didn't follow the discussions on the rfced-future list in detail, so
this point may have come up before.


Thanks!

Alvaro.



[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_jeopardy