Re: [rrg] A Revised critique for LISP

> Comments welcome!

Comments inline.

> Lixia
> -----------
>
> LISP Critique
>
> LISP continues to go through changes based on lessons learned in  
> actual deployment. This critique is based on the (understanding of)  
> description at the time of this writing. This critique includes

LISP is going through engineering changes as a reflection of  
deployment. There really aren't any architectural changes happening.

> issues from fundamental architectural limitations, potential  
> problems that require co-ordinated change, and new issues as the  
> results of the design; in addition it also includes a clarification  
> of some basic definitions.
>
> First, two basic terms in LISP needs clarification: as state in LISP  
> drafts:
>   "LISP specifies an architecture and mechanism for replacing the
>   addresses currently used by IP with two separate name spaces:
>   Endpoint IDS (EIDs), used within sites, and Routing Locators  
> (RLOCs),
>   used on the transit networks that make up the Internet
>   infrastructure."
> Thus "EID" in LISP is not a host identifier, but IP addresses used  
> within a site for packet delivery. Furthermore, an RLOC is not  
> simply any IP address reachable in the global default free zone; it  
> is an special address that binds to an attachment point of a site.

A LISP EID is a host identifier. It is also a locally scoped locator  
that does not require global routing knowledge from core routers.

> Regarding the architecture, LISP's most serious challenges are due  
> to the fact that it effectively divides today's routed IP address  
> space into two, edges and the core, which comes with all the  
> challenges that such a grand division brings; the list below  
> attempts to capture the major ones that have been identified (not in  
> priority order).
>
> The first question is whether, or how, one can draw a clear boundary  
> to sort existing networks into the core and edges. For example where  
> should one put those transit networks that do not provide global  
> connectivity (e.g. Internet2)? Do such networks belong to the core  
> or edges?  Does the core represent a connected cloud (bar transient  
> failures)?
>
> The second class of challenges arises from the fact that the  
> reachability to each edge destination is now a combined result of 3  
> major components: the mapping database that captures connectivity  
> between an edge site and its TRs, realtime status between an edge  
> site and its TRs, and the connectivity between ITR and ETR to  
> encapsulate packets over. In designing these components, three goals  
> are often in conflict: minimizing overhead, minimizing complexity,  
> and maximizing performance.
>
> Because the mapping database will be very large in size, LISP lets  
> ITRs query mapping on demand, which brings up the question of how to  
> handle packets while ITR waiting for the mapping information. The  
> current decision (dropping packets) favors simplicity at the cost of  
> data performance.  Would be feasible to buffer the packets? How deep  
> such a buffer could be? Such questions need future research.

An implementation *could* queue packets. This has the same  
architectural tradeoffs that ARP and IPv6 Neighbor Discovery have. And  
the architecture says data packets could be used as Map-Requests.

> Another issue arises from caching the mapping information: caching  
> improves the performance, but introduces the problem of detecting,  
> and replacing, outdated mappings. This is a very lengthy topic with  
> many subtly different failure modes, which cannot be covered here in  
> any detail.

But you make is sound that LISP doesn't address this. There are  
numerous solutions to this and several are implemented.

> Because of this caching effect, and the fact that the ETR to a  
> multihomed destination site is chosen at ITR, LISP design also faces  
> challenges of response to component failures. LISP cannot easily  
> test reachability of ultimate destinations (e.g. behind an ETR).

Well it could. It could ping EIDs. Just like a BGP router could ping  
an endpoint host. But it doesn't because it would not scale. It  
doesn't mean that because a BGP route is in a routing table that the  
destination is reachable.

So please compare apples and apples. That means compare what the new  
LISP idea challenges are with the same challenges existing routing  
architectures have.

> Regarding the mapping system, the ALT design has potential  
> performance and scaling issues (e.g. concentration of request load  
> at the top-level nodes); an interface has been built to allow

If you say ALT doesn't scale, then you must say the BGP based Internet  
doesn't scale. Are you willing to say that?

> replacement of the mapping system.  Another issue is potential  
> identification (EIDs) namespace provider lock-in, unless some  
> mechanism can be worked out to allow multiple competing providers to  
> provide resolutions from EIDs to ETRs (perhaps as part of a new  
> mapping system).  This last point touches on an even more important  
> issue: an ISP's performance critically depends on the performance of  
> the mapping system, a single mapping system to serve all seems  
> problematic.

There are no address providers. It is a one time sale. You buy an  
address block from a registry and the relationship is over.

If you want to bind it with locators and buy service from a Mapping  
Service Provider (MSP), then you have choices because they all attach  
at the ALT at the same aggregation layer.

We are modeling this in our 3rd generation of the LISP test network.

The only relationship a LISP site has with a service provider is the  
link that attaches to it and the  single address the SP assigns to the  
CE side of the link. Once you disable the contract with the SP, the  
link goes away and the address does. The EID-prefixs and other  
locators do not change. The mapping entry for the site gets updated  
dynamically in the Map-Server as well as existing caches and  
communication continues. In fact, TCP connections stay up during this  
change.

> Another class of issues relates to network management and operations.
> - Although LISP does provide significant tools for multi-homing,
>  load-sharing, optimal-entry-selection, etc, these currently depend  
> on correct
>  configuration; response to component failures is also limited.

Can you sight examples where this is true. Just making a claim doesn't  
mean it is true.

> - LISP is currently working through NAT boxes, but only in limited
>  configurations. In particular, due to the use of fixed UDP ports,  
> it is not
>  currently possible to support more than one ETR behind a NAT box.

This is easily fixed with a protocol change and not an architectural  
change. And this is only the case when the NAT and LISP are not co- 
located in the same box(es).

> - Encapsulations of data packets increase the packet size and may  
> lead to PMTU problems.

Just like existing tunneling solutions that seem to work and generate  
revenue in practice.

> Last but not least: One would not be able to see global routing  
> table size reduction unless/until LISP has been adopted by  
> significant number of networks. On the other hand, LISP is  
> potentially a useful tool in data centers where its one-level of  
> indirection may help significantly simplify the support for virtual  
> servers.

This is simply not true. The more specifics from site advertisements  
are withdrawn at the expense of coarse prefixes being injected by  
PITRs. The difference in the number of 1 or 2 orders of magnitude.

And why is there two points in the same paragraph? The data center  
comment came out of no where.

Dino

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