Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd love it if patents evaporated)
Justin Uberti <juberti@google.com> Sat, 16 November 2013 02:18 UTC
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From: Justin Uberti <juberti@google.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 18:18:07 -0800
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To: "Hervé W." <h_o_w_@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd love it if patents evaporated)
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Thanks. Performance at 256 kbps is clearly unacceptable, 1933 kbps is pretty decent. Would be great to see a 512 kbps and 1024 kbps version to understand where things go from bad to good. On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Hervé W. <h_o_w_@hotmail.com> wrote: > <http://ge.tt/2bp1Zrz> <http://ge.tt/2bp1Zrz> <http://ge.tt/2bp1Zrz> > http://ge.tt/2bp1Zrz > > options used: > mencoder.exe -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=h261:vbitrate=256 -o > irene-256k.h261.avi sign_irene_cif.y4m > > mencoder.exe -ovc lavc -lavcopts > vcodec=h261:vbitrate=256:last_pred=3:predia=2:dia=2:precmp=2:cmp=2:subcmp=2:preme=2:mbd=0 > -o irene-256k.h261.miscoptions.avi sign_irene_cif.y4m > > mencoder.exe -ovc lavc -lavcopts > vcodec=h261:vbitrate=15999:last_pred=3:predia=2:dia=2:precmp=2:cmp=2:subcmp=2:preme=2:mbd=0 > -o irene-highbitrate.h261.avi sign_irene_cif.y4m > > You can probably derive ffmpeg/avconv options from those. > > Notes > > - There's a ticket open about h261 > <https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/3143> > https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/3143 > - 15999 kbps was not the bitrate irene-highbitrate ended up using; > that was more like 1933 kbps > - My untrained eye did not see any difference between > irene-256k.h261.avi and irene-256k.h261.miscoptions.avi but maybe most of > those options are (rightly) ignored for h261. > > > - Hervé > > ------------------------------ > From: juberti@google.com > Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 14:00:50 -0800 > To: cowwoc@bbs.darktech.org > CC: rtcweb@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd love it if > patents evaporated) > > > From what I understand, the clip from this thread was encoded using > MPEG-1, not H.261. Aside from > http://www-mobile.ecs.soton.ac.uk/peter/h261/, I don't think we have seen > any samples of actual H.261 output that give a good indication of its > suitability. > > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 5:52 AM, cowwoc <cowwoc@bbs.darktech.org> wrote: > > > Excellent work Adam. I can't speak for others, but at 254 kbps (corrected > figure from your follow-up post) H.261 is definitely "good enough" and > better than an audio-only connection. > > Gili > > > On 14/11/2013 6:16 PM, Adam Roach wrote: > > I sent a reply to this earlier, but just now realized that it went only to > Justin, not to the list. > > > On 11/14/13 13:59, Justin Uberti wrote: > > Thanks, this is interesting. Is the ffmpeg 261 encoder limited to > CIF/QCIF, or can you specify arbitrary sizes? > > > It looks like the ffmpeg mpeg-1 coder works for arbitrary sizes. I'm not > sure what the difference between mpeg-1 and H.261 are, though, so we could > be talking apples and oranges (or at least apples and pears) here. I'll > note that mpeg-1 came out in 1991, which is a good 22 years in the past. > I'm not drawing IPR conclusions for you, but invite you to ponder the > implications yourself. > > Following Maik's lead with the mpeg-1 js decoder, I put this together: > > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53717247/mpg/maven.html > > ...with this commandline: > > ffmpeg -i maven.mp4 -f mpeg1video -flags qprd -mbd rd -cmp rd -subcmp rd > -mbcmp rd -precmp rd -trellis 2 -g 100 -vb 256k maven.mpg > > I don't really understand most of those options (I just cribbed them from > Maik's example) or whether any of them would introduce more latency than is > reasonable for a real-time conversation, but I will observe: > > 1. The encoder claims that it was performing on the order of 90 - 100 > fps on my (admittedly modern) system; > 2. The resolution is 640x360 (somewhat larger than DCIF); > 3. The video is not, to my eye, unusable (draw your own conclusions, > as it's clearly not as nice as modern codecs); > 4. At 74 seconds and 4.7 MBytes (i.e., 37.6 Mbits), this encoding > works out to 508 kbits/second total. > > > > Source video here, and NASA is acknowledged as the source of the material > contained therein: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijAO0FFExx0 > > /a > > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing listrtcweb@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > > _______________________________________________ rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Leon Geyser
- [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd love… Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Monty Montgomery
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Gunnar Hellstrom
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- [rtcweb] Trellis IPR status? (Re: H261/MPEG-1 vid… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Trellis IPR status? (Re: H261/MPEG-1… Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Trellis IPR status? (Re: H261/MPEG-1… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Trellis IPR status? (Re: H261/MPEG-1… Maik Merten