Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd love it if patents evaporated)
Maik Merten <maikmerten@googlemail.com> Thu, 14 November 2013 19:12 UTC
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:12:29 +0100
From: Maik Merten <maikmerten@googlemail.com>
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd love it if patents evaporated)
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Hello again, to allow for having a quick look at some test sequences I put together a very very sloppy overview page at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14053306/mpeg1/index.html This includes a completely JavaScript-based MPEG-1 player for those that don't happen to have a fitting decoder installed (also, yay, JavaScript is fast enough now for simple video decoders!). I recreated the encoded files to ensure there are no b-frames and documented the encoder settings accordingly. Best regards, Maik Am 14.11.2013 11:52, schrieb Maik Merten: > Hello all, > > in http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg09721.html a > sample of H.261 video was provided, connected to a (rhetorical?) > question if this provided quality would be acceptable for users. Clearly > that provided sample is of very low and unacceptable quality. > > Just for comparison, here are two CIF samples at roughly 256k created by > a somewhat modern encoder (ffmpeg with rate/distortion optimization): > > > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14053306/mpeg1/irene-256k.mpg > > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14053306/mpeg1/mad900-256k.mpg > > > (encoded as MPEG-1 video, as the "h261" encoder in ffmpeg crashes when > using rate/distortion optimization. I understand MPEG-1 if used without > b-frames is similar to H.261 in coding efficiency, but mostly adds more > flexibility regarding frame sizes. > > ffmpeg -i sign_irene_cif.y4m -vcodec mpeg1video -mbd rd -trellis 2 -cmp > 2 -subcmp 2 -g 100 -vb 256k irene-256k.mpg ) > > Even without formal testing it is obvious that H.261 and/or MPEG-1 video > is clearly outperformed in terms of coding efficiency by H.264 and VP8. > However, personally, speaking as an end-user, I would very much prefer > this video quality over audio-only calls (in cases where transcoding is > not available), as the video produced still carries useful information. > Also H.261/MPEG-1 is blazingly fast, can be dealt with in software, and > is not exceedingly difficult to implement. > > Of course a MTI codec with higher coding performance is much preferable. > However, if no such high-performance codec with licensing terms that are > acceptable for all communities can be agreed on I think it may be wise > to seriously evaluate the option of implementing an outdated codec for > the sake of interoperability. In practice, most calls will negotiate to > H.264 and VP8 anyways, but sporadic negotiation failures that are > difficult to account for by the user are still to be expected if no MTI > codec is defined at all. > > > > Best regards, > > Maik
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Leon Geyser
- [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd love… Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Gili
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Monty Montgomery
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Leon Geyser
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality (was: I'd … Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Gunnar Hellstrom
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Randell Jesup
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rtcweb] H261/MPEG-1 video quality Maik Merten
- [rtcweb] Trellis IPR status? (Re: H261/MPEG-1 vid… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Trellis IPR status? (Re: H261/MPEG-1… Maik Merten
- Re: [rtcweb] Trellis IPR status? (Re: H261/MPEG-1… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Trellis IPR status? (Re: H261/MPEG-1… Maik Merten