Re: [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements
Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> Mon, 21 October 2013 14:21 UTC
Return-Path: <harald@alvestrand.no>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DA4F11E85E3 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 07:21:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -110.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sZqbMimn9KuC for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 07:21:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no (eikenes.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13A9A11E81CE for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 07:21:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9EF239E095 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 16:21:26 +0200 (CEST)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at eikenes.alvestrand.no
Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QHCyl9nf+yWv for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 16:21:26 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from [192.168.1.17] (unknown [188.113.88.47]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 28CCF39E070 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 16:21:26 +0200 (CEST)
Message-ID: <5265386A.2020005@alvestrand.no>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 16:21:30 +0200
From: Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rtcweb@ietf.org
References: <CAMvTgcfvaUMWJaD5zX2rt6DWOWBgHEA-SqNtOqxs_bOqw_Ygbg@mail.gmail.com> <CABkgnnXBdQOgs9OKYRrU4wYRghj3WH30=vo-q7iSVjUub1SKow@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBOGjsOTXPtAFh+KR9SDQv8tEtUDE3gLvSN+f5dZ2R2R1Q@mail.gmail.com> <CABkgnnVTv4jVZkCDHWKk_X8yb3VEGBLXh+sW00OCG6RXMNkpgA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABkgnnVTv4jVZkCDHWKk_X8yb3VEGBLXh+sW00OCG6RXMNkpgA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 14:21:49 -0000
On 10/18/2013 06:34 PM, Martin Thomson wrote: > On 17 October 2013 18:38, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote: >> I'm not sure this was a sensible rule on 4572, but I don't think it's >> particularly harmful. > Right. I'd have gone with a rule that said: MUST validate a > "strong-enough" hash; MAY ignore others; MUST fail validation if any > hash doesn't match. That gives you backwards compatibility + hash > agility. > > That only works of course if there is only one potential certificate > that can be used. If you have to allow for several, then that doesn't > work. But then you lose the advantages of the above. The interesting cases are: Consider 2 hash algorithms, A and B. Receiving browser supports A, but not B. Fingerprint uses A, certificate uses A: No problem. Fingerprint uses B, certificate uses B: Browser can't verify fingerprint, but can't use cert anyway. Fingerprint uses A, certificate uses B: Browser can verify that it got the right useless certificate. Fingerprint uses B, certificate uses A: Browser can't verify the certificate, so can't trust it, even though it might have been useful. Note that whether A or B is the stronger hash is not relevant to this exercise. When receiving browser supports both A and B, we could argue that they should be allowed to be different in the name of algorithm agility. But is there a real gain in security achieved by it? > >>> That should probably be written down, of course. >> Agreed. > The question is: where? > > I have a few hours, maybe I can write down an update to 4572 that fixes this. > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
- [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements Kevin Dempsey
- Re: [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] JSEP fingerprint hash requirements Martin Thomson