[rtcweb] Request to postpone the question on VP8 as MTI

Gaelle Martin-Cocher <gmartincocher@blackberry.com> Sun, 10 March 2013 14:45 UTC

Return-Path: <prvs=27818836e5=gmartincocher@blackberry.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3F0221F8675 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 07:45:16 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.992
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.992 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.210, BAYES_00=-2.599, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u00sa3DBq38K for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 07:45:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mhs060cnc.rim.net (mhs060cnc.rim.net []) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5595621F8441 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 07:45:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-AuditID: 0a41282f-b7fa06d000002431-e8-513c9c6e5b09
Received: from XCT108CNC.rim.net (xct108cnc.rim.net []) by mhs060cnc.rim.net (SBG) with SMTP id 27.72.09265.E6C9C315; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 09:45:02 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from XMB106BCNC.rim.net ([fe80::99b8:8d0e:cdcd:c00d]) by XCT108CNC.rim.net ([fe80::8dc1:9551:6ed8:c618%17]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 10:45:01 -0400
From: Gaelle Martin-Cocher <gmartincocher@blackberry.com>
To: "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Request to postpone the question on VP8 as MTI
Thread-Index: Ac4dlY3FzJtNznrqSx+jCyG0eO/KJA==
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 14:45:00 +0000
Message-ID: <92D0D52F3A63344CA478CF12DB0648AA26537A69@XMB106BCNC.rim.net>
Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-CA, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach: yes
x-originating-ip: []
Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_92D0D52F3A63344CA478CF12DB0648AA26537A69XMB106BCNCrimne_"; type="multipart/alternative"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrBJsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXC5bjwgm7eHJtAgwVnpC3W/mtnd2D0WLLk J1MAY1QDo01SYklZcGZ6nr6dTWJeXn5JYkmqQkpqcbKtkk9qemKOQkBRZllicqWCS2Zxck5i Zm5qkZJCZoqtkomSQkFOYnJqbmpeia1SYkFBal6Kkh2XAgawASrLzFNIzUvOT8nMS7dV8gz2 17WwMLXUNVSy003o5Ml4cu8Le8HkSYwVm+deYG1gPNHA2MXIySEhYCJx8fMrVghbTOLCvfVs ILaQwCpGiSfn+LoYuYDsbYwSkzvOM4Mk2AQsJf6/2sMCYosIqEtcfniBHcQWFjCX+HT4PiNE 3EZi0aTfUDV6Ehs+7waLswioSkzvawebwyvgKbHz03cgm4ODUUBF4uTTcJAws4C4xK0n85kg 7hGReHjxNBuELSrx8vE/qDsVJZ7dWcoOUd/NKPFmVyDESEGJkzOfsExgFJqFZNQsJGWzkJRB xPMljt3eyQxh60ncmDqFDcLWlli28DVUXFdixr9DLJjiOhKbL+2EiitKtHXOBtrFBWQvZZSY 938/C0xR26F9bDBFU7ofsi9g5F3FKJibUWxgZpCcl6xXlJmrl5dasokRnI409Hcwvn1vcYhR gINRiYf3cIN1oBBrYllxZe4hRhWgGY82rL7AKMWSl5+XqiTCy1NlEyjEm5JYWZValB9fVJqT WnyIMQcY0hOZpbiT84EpNK8k3tjAgGKOkjivSKBooJBAOjDtZqemFqQWwaxj4uA8xCjBwSUl UgxMnqlFiaUlGfGgFB9fDEzyUg2MDe+/PtZQEtg46/3qKVnH70VaLbtf6F+rmln35Cw756NQ KbfzX3/pZvstmvU2t3fu5WC7N+1PRHwVwrr6DikFxDk/ubjsCEvgAxn/z+ZcWguWnHvwdPff 6WxKD7fHe79njVydWjnjhXjm4ncf/OWfhkvq7zTOmTvVZ/4Llu8PMxRdIiRddWZsU2Ipzkg0 1GIuKk4EABP7dAK7AwAA
Subject: [rtcweb] Request to postpone the question on VP8 as MTI
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 14:45:16 -0000

Dear All,

In light of the recent announcements (both MPEG-LA and the VP8 litigation), I believe that more time is needed to make a proper risk assessment on VP8 and an informed decision. On one side the MPEG-LA announcement provides some relief but also confirms that VP8 does not come for free and that concerns were/are justified. This is further confirmed by the second announcement.
It will take more efforts for VP8 supporters (and Google does not need to be alone in that process) to reach the goal of an RF video codec (or a codec with a suitable licensing terms). I think it is understood by now, that this would likely be more prone to success in a standardization body than anywhere else . (speaking here as a WebVC proponent that went through that process too).
It is also apparent that the MPEG-LA/Google agreement raises additional questions.

Here are the reasons I believe we need more time and should postpone the question on VP8 (I am not saying that this should not be asked at a later time):
-The license is not yet published (and the meeting starts tomorrow)
-Some negotiations are still ongoing (e.g. names of the licensors).
-Some questions were/are raised and not answered yet, below are the one that matters to me:
- Will the patent list be provided?
- Who are the licensors  and how that group of licensors relates to the initial 12 patent holders identified by MPEG-LA?
- Will there be alignment of licenses across WebM, RFC, MPEG, and is that even feasible with the possible new license terms?
- Questions related to clarifications of the different grants inside/outside the RFC and their applicability to the RFC itself still need to be answered (aka: how  section 20: 27 apply to the RFC code itself or to the code provided in MPEG)
- Questions related to the status of VP8 as a standard as it was mentioned that the RFC will not progress to the standard track still remain
- In light of the litigation announcement, was due diligence done by VP8 proponents toward patent holders that are not MPEG-LA members?  (e.g. possibly on a model similar to what was done in WebVC)
- More questions will likely be raised once the license is published.
-We need to give enough time to Google to finalize its license and provide answers on those above points.
-VP8 is not (yet) a standard in IETF nor in MPEG (MPEG only saw an input contribution for the first time in January). It would be desirable that RTCWeb points to a standard or that VP8 reaches a certain stage in MPEG so that it can be considered as an MPEG deliverable. VP8 may reach that status at a next MPEG meeting in April or July, I don't see how that can be accelerated further. We need to give MPEG the time to proceed properly.
-legal entities will need time to review both the new license and the answers to the various questions that were asked. This cannot be achieved in 3 days.

Further, I just came across an informational RFC for VP9:
-Is VP9 going to "deprecate" VP8?
- What is the timeframe for VP9 in IETF?
-if VP9 going to be proposed for a next generation of RTCWeb Client? Which timeframe?
I don't think it would be desirable to mandate VP8 today if VP9 is around the corner and will be proposed for RTCWeb as well.
Requesting two codecs to be implemented instead of one in a short timeframe is obviously an issue for implementers that cannot do a simple software upgrade of their products.

I hope all of you will find that request reasonable.

Gaëlle Martin-Cocher

Standards Manager

Office: (905) 629-4746 x14591

BlackBerry: (647) 267-0569

PIN: 2835485E

[Description: C:\Documents and Settings\gmartincocher\Application Data\Microsoft\Signatures\bblogo.gif]


This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential information, privileged material (including material protected by the solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.