Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-protocol-03
Michael Tuexen <Michael.Tuexen@lurchi.franken.de> Wed, 14 May 2014 20:45 UTC
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From: Michael Tuexen <Michael.Tuexen@lurchi.franken.de>
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Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 22:45:17 +0200
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To: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
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Cc: draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-protocol@tools.ietf.org, "rtcweb@ietf.org" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-protocol-03
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On 14 May 2014, at 22:30, Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> wrote: > On 2014-05-13 17:51, Michael Tuexen wrote: >> On 13 May 2014, at 17:26, Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> wrote: > >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2. Section 4: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The method >>>>>>>>> used to determine which side uses odd or even is based on the >>>>>>>>> underlying DTLS connection role when used in WebRTC, with the side >>>>>>>>> acting as the DTLS client using even stream identifiers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Isn't this unnecessary using the vague word of WebRTC instead of simply >>>>>>>>> pointing to the DTLS roles of the established data channel? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The point is that in the WebRTC you use DCEP/SCTP/DTLS/UDP and therefore >>>>>>>> you can refer to the DTLS role. However, you could use DCEP/SCTP/IP >>>>>>>> or DCEP/SCTP/UDP/IP or DCEP/SCTP over something not involving DTLS. >>>>>>>> In that case DTLS is not used and you can not refer to the DTLS role. >>>>>>>> That is why the restriction is used. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ok, if that concern then you still should be able to write a normative >>>>>>> specification under the condition that it is SCTP over DTLS. If not how >>>>>>> do you determine that? Are suggesting just to hand way or point to a >>>>>>> higher signaling layer. >>>>>> So what about using: >>>>>> >>>>>> when using <xref target='I-D.ietf-tsvwg-sctp-dtls-encaps'/>, the method used to >>>>>> determine which side uses odd or even is based on the underlying DTLS >>>>>> connection role: the side acting as the DTLS client MUST use Streams with even >>>>>> SCTP stream identifiers, the side acting as the DTLS server MUST use Streams >>>>>> with odd SCTP stream identifiers.</t> >>>>> >>>>> I think that is fine for when using over DTLS. And to my understanding >>>>> this do require DTLS? If not we need alternative text. >>> >>>> Our current use-case is for SCTP/DTLS. But we don't need DTLS except for >>>> its security properties. However, if someone doesn't use DTLS, he has to >>>> figure out how to determine the even/odd. This is covered by: >>>> >>>> <t>To avoid glare in opening Channels, each side MUST use Streams with >>>> either even or odd SCTP stream identifiers when sending a DATA_CHANNEL_OPEN >>>> message. >>>> When using <xref target='I-D.ietf-tsvwg-sctp-dtls-encaps'/>, the method used to >>>> determine which side uses odd or even is based on the underlying DTLS >>>> connection role: the side acting as the DTLS client MUST use Streams with even >>>> SCTP stream identifiers, the side acting as the DTLS server MUST use Streams >>>> with odd SCTP stream identifiers.</t> >>>> >>>> However, we can't provide a method in the general case... >>> >>> Yes, as long as you use DTLS it is well specified. The issue I am trying >>> to get my head around is if this specification and the data channel is >>> possible to use without DTLS. This is one of the few (only?) things that >>> requires it beyond the security features. Thus, should this be >>> explicitly noted as saying, if you don't use DTLS you will be required >>> to find an alternative solution to the roles. > >> Isn't this be said by the first sentence of the paragraph? It states >> the requirement of having a rule and provides on the second sentence >> such a rule for the case where DTLS is used. >> > > Yes, it does. And I see no risk of this being misunderstood in the > context of WebRTC usage. So I will accept this, but note that this may > be one of these cases where some poor guy will swear over this > specification not being clearer on how to apply it in other contexts. I'm happy to integrate any text you sent... Should I resubmit the ID? I think it is pretty much done... Best regards Michael > > Cheers > > Magnus Westerlund > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Services, Media and Network features, Ericsson Research EAB/TXM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 > Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 > SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >
- [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb-dat… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb… Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)
- Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Review comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb… Michael Tuexen