RE: [Apn] FW: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim

["Majumdar, Kausik" <[e-mail]>]

Hi Robin,

Sure, make sense you & the team focus more on the APN specific items in the RTG interim meeting. Anyway, the draft Linda pointed out - that we have presented in IETF 109 and the next revision we are going to present in the upcoming IETF 111. Hence we don't a slot in the interim meeting, you can focus on the APN specific agenda.

Though, let me clarify your second comment regarding the draft-mcd-rtgwg-extension-tn-aware-mobility draft that Linda pointed earlier. This draft purely focuses on the Data Network side. Yes, it does extend the network characteristics (based on the DMM draft draft-ietf-dmm-tn-aware-mobility-00) from the Mobile Network to the Data Network. But the focus for this draft is mainly Data Network.

This draft extends the different network slices corresponding to the different SSTs (like EMBB, URLLC, MIOT) from the Mobile Network to the Data Network based on the UDP Source Port range. It defines the control and data plane mapping well for different SSTs with different SR-TE-based mechanisms (like BGP SR-TE, PCEP, SR FlowSpec, SR-TE RestConf/GRPC, etc.). Besides that, it extends the framework for the Enterprise 5G specific SD-WAN use cases as well.

I guess where we think there is some synergy between this solution and the APN framework on how we bring UE/user or application-specific slice/flow within each of the different SSTs mentioned above.

Think about it this way, the different SSTs/Network Characteristics map to Fat Network slices or Highways in the Data Network. But once UE starts using different UDP Source Ports from the Slice specific range it is pretty much the same way you are planning to insert User/Application traffic from the APN Edge Node. You are planning to approach based on 5-tuple, VLAN tagging whereas original dmm-tn-aware-mobility draft can use UDP Source Port can to define User/Application traffic. Either approach will finally create several lanes within each Network Slice Highway created by the rtgwg-extension-tn-aware-mobility Draft.

Hope it clarifies any confusion on what Linda pointed out earlier. In that sense, there might be some synergy to work together between what has been defined in our draft with your current APN work. We would be happy to work with you and the team offline if you think that might be useful down the road. Either way, in this interim please go ahead based on your plan. We can connect to explore further the collaboration of both works.

Regards,
Kausik


From: Apn <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Lizhenbin
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 9:10 PM
To: Linda Dunbar <[e-mail]>; Pengshuping (Peng Shuping) <[e-mail]>; Gyan Mishra <[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]; 6MAN <[e-mail]>; Routing Area Working Group <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]; RTGWG <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Apn] FW: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim

Hi Linda, Thanks very much for your proposal. I have following comments for your reference: 1. The coming APN interim meeting will focus on the solution discussion including the forwarding plane (IPv6
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Hi Linda,
Thanks very much for your proposal. I have following comments for your reference:
1. The coming APN interim meeting will focus on the solution discussion including the forwarding plane (IPv6-based and MPLS-based) encapsulation, the possible control protocols (IGP/BGP/PCEP) extension and YANG models.
2. We have changed the scope of APN to focus on the network-side solution and updates the related drafts accordingly. I am a little doubtful that the solution in your draft is still related with the case to tag the information in the application side. Even if not, because most of the GTP-u work is under the scope of 3GPP instead of IETF, it may be not a right time to discuss the encapsulation of APN attributes with the GTP-u tunnel now. We should focus on the IETF-based tunnel technologies firstly.


Best Regards,
Robin




From: Linda Dunbar [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 1:03 AM
To: Pengshuping (Peng Shuping) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Gyan Mishra <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; RTGWG <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; 6MAN <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Routing Area Working Group <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [Apn] FW: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim

Shuping and APN proponents,

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcd-rtgwg-extension-tn-aware-mobility/<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Ly8sIyYWhXsB_NV2gTmaM87sW0zAgNJwMNtFcPt5-TtcWGncq0Pb1ySWpT5KZY5yeB5PUn3bEsbAQeyhXbpmKM6YWagPm2GDPgS1fsBrzaDdaY-00ECU0QxeJtK8AeVas7kJWjMrT29ixHMEmOBH2ioFYVil0H_sRrceHvmklSMZ7rvCq3lbPVwS7FXcFmpuVnKoX-HrMHkfWSDg_zxzcYvKAkHRlVKEeJ8-6phIdMTy_GIctX6MFYbLICn3kKaMcdFP4JRrTv4MthYZXNyQhojVuhBgBpQT0fT7do5bNJIuiC6SA4YqDmjg2oKAcfQZ/https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-mcd-rtgwg-extension-tn-aware-mobility%2F> describes a framework to enable the IP network (over the 5G N6 interface) to be aware of the 5G UE traffic to achieve optimized transport aligning with the 5G Slices characteristics .
The proposed framework aligns with the APN scope of work described in the APN BoF description. Do you think it is worthwhile to add this draft to the APN interim meeting?

Thank you very much.
Linda Dunbar

From: Apn <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> On Behalf Of Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 10:57 PM
To: Gyan Mishra <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; RTGWG <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; 6MAN <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Routing Area Working Group <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Apn] FW: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim

Hi Gyan, folks,

Thank you for your suggestions! Besides the guiding slides for the solution discussions, we will also have a set of slides for the problem statement to clarify the WHY.

According to the feedback we have received so far, we have updated the main drafts to sync the information.


The main changes we have made to the drafts are as follows:

1. Removed the application-side solution, only keep the network-side solution

2. The APN attribute is acquired based on the existing information in the packet header such as 5-tuple and QinQ (S-VLAN and C-VLAN) at the edge devices of the APN domain, added to the data packets along with the tunnel encapsulation.

3. When the packets leave the APN domain, the attribute will be removed together with the tunnel encapsulation header.

4. APN aims to apply various policies in different nodes along a network path onto a traffic flow altogether, for example, at the headend to steer into corresponding path, at the midpoint to collect corresponding performance measurement data, and at the service function to execute particular policies.



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-li-apn-framework-03<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-li-apn-framework-03&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C2135160315e4459f633f08d91f312652%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637575118239682662%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=NGn3A8uQEesRTdgDQK8R%2BrVUkMNquU3aDBmmes3WrCY%3D&reserved=0>

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-li-apn-problem-statement-usecases-02<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-li-apn-problem-statement-usecases-02&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C2135160315e4459f633f08d91f312652%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637575118239682662%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=734J6KBv7Hc3RqqaBCUVKaqPjAs9gwtbfilyntCPVy4%3D&reserved=0>

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-peng-apn-scope-gap-analysis-02<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-peng-apn-scope-gap-analysis-02&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C2135160315e4459f633f08d91f312652%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637575118239692621%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=KFh4OhC07Z5X9RkaNY%2FkQtyMQ1H6xNa19q8SLwEuF%2FY%3D&reserved=0>

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-peng-apn-security-privacy-consideration-01<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-peng-apn-security-privacy-consideration-01&data=04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C2135160315e4459f633f08d91f312652%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637575118239692621%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=oA6OkUf04E6uKIQY2hDYNPgAqta0TeyRYHxcmoQNUJM%3D&reserved=0>

Your reviews and comments are very welcomed. Thank you!

Best regards,
Shuping

From: Apn [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Gyan Mishra
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2021 6:39 AM
To: Pengshuping (Peng Shuping) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; 6MAN <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Routing Area Working Group <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Apn] FW: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim


Hi Shuping & APN WG

I agree as well that the agenda looks good and many thanks to the RTGWG for providing a time slot to host the discussion.

I support the basic concept of the gap APN is trying to solve and provide fine grain SLA for primary use case of 5G network slicing.

Traditionally and historically customer SLA been provided using Diffserv QOS Marking and PHB scheduling as well as customer application layer SLA using RSVP TE class or path based tunnel selection DS TE RFC 4124 and RFC 3270 MPLS Diffserv uniform and pipe mode explicit null framework to meet customer SLA requirements.  Also ALTO / SDN PCE / PCE CC based network based application flow optimizations of flows as well as ACTN abstraction framework for underlay path resource provisioning.

As an agenda item I think it maybe a good idea to briefly touch on the problem statement and the gap that requires a solution based on  existing technologies and solutions that exist today.

Also applicability of the APN ID fine grain SLA for 5G network slicing, DETNET, SD WAN as well as any other use cases.

As we have discussed caveats and complexity related to host to network signaling that it makes sense to update the existing drafts to reflect application edge CE based network marking of the APN ID.   Also, as the APN ID marking as we have discussed will change  to network layer marking on the application edge CE, how does the marking closely or not resemble the VTN ID marking in the data packet for VPN+ E2E network slicing.

This will help facilitate the discussion so we don't get stuck on the complexity of host to network signaling.

Kind Regards

Gyan


On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 8:55 PM Pengshuping (Peng Shuping) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Dear all,

The APN Interim meeting has been scheduled on June 3rd. Please find the meeting information shared by the Chairs of the RTG WG below.

In this APN Interim meeting, we are going to focus more on the discussions of the solutions (more overview than details), including
1.       the design of the APN attribute itself
2.       the encapsulation of the APN attribute on the various data planes (the encapsulation on the IPv6 data plane is an example)
3.       the control plane protocols extensions for exchanging the APN attribute
4.       NETCONF/YANG models for the NBI and SBI

You are very welcomed to join the discussions, and your comments and suggestions are very much appreciated.

Thank you!

Best regards,
Shuping



From: rtgwg [mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>] On Behalf Of Jeff Tantsura
Sent: Friday, May 7, 2021 6:38 AM
To: Routing WG <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; RTGWG <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim

Dear RTGWG,

We have scheduled Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim (agenda to be published), June 3rd, 2021, 7:00AM PST

Looking forward to seeing you,

Cheers,
Jeff and Chris


When it's time, start your Webex meeting here.



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Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect

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