IETF Logo Mail Archive

[saag] Re: Government–Industry Dialogue Public Side Meeting at IETF 126 Vienna

John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com> Fri, 17 July 2026 22:46 UTC

Return-Path: <john.mattsson@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: saag@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: saag@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C05F71189AB7C for <saag@mail2.ietf.org>; Fri, 17 Jul 2026 15:46:51 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1784328411; bh=I5ECfElJMrQphIRyTT4g8I8C8ZL9wC00m8hwXYJxzog=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To; b=tW2iVTUPEgJui47LeIrSDTO4uRgvN6ozutOgfwJbLHxgq0oZbzWp03drhuyTcNJML eV/xk+SATonXHT5V3lcg3/62zyuB9zd2lI/y3AbKtYWwLYVQ7RlHpBHaBrMQXFivZK 23kzxTGfhdzb873I9s9w1HkAajLUHRoTlLvcZ7ZQ=
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.096
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fc4D4-Nf17jb for <saag@mail2.ietf.org>; Fri, 17 Jul 2026 15:46:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from DB3PR0202CU003.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-northeuropeazon11010060.outbound.protection.outlook.com [52.101.84.60]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-384) server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10E0E1189AB72 for <saag@ietf.org>; Fri, 17 Jul 2026 15:46:50 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=tdeFHcfOmt+8UtZA2d9TLWjdB3tc8zVLlT1f1kVHMNWN+2G7qjL5Nv+4nqTEG4xgWtCP78ulDVhJJiiod8VRl6Cpe+C/rDeiCbHlz52SNjcKVZFwRcydc0mZs/pGSri8vC9Dpi4FlvIkMSzVCndYlihr27OCNM5qUEIxJgwbVmytaaKNiwyaFZGqanA7ykvpm/UXDVUPj5j70QSuPwFAO2GlDgOAB7HIWxQn3BbvsRGpCPrvU1v0NpDRG2Lbek1UshbDLXxp0+ahSZJ4s9dLHCUdsd68pStiH7Tw1uGpsSfjL+uhAs9GeK+cws1IR6sL0cL/BpeXYHY/ZowMsDv9rQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=Xcf9Cqz8Doxe8c6F96vJeKaAsJmR9pcK5ewPOKIcrus=; b=b383s2Su6k2VeUHVfWD4GFu5Fd+WVPJRg9gIlidbls4yCghIMxTw28p2TAFVc1WcRm2bAMWYKDIqCs+H4Xyjt9rEIQJvauUp0Pq4MkNBzbTrAv9Dyg+HhQ43K9OBB2RnaBhdTrrXs4bb0UO1VUbRromCON65RWXyq6IbfZG3ptFYn6AdAUON87lnpj9G0VsU//O2WoAIU+oJbN3Hhai9a/A+o5vyr4XZ/0FCH9tOVPmGS9MtUafSfb5rlnTTIDIRqAfvEtWfCrXpahnm58UHOwzrCdbHW09IY/E6rD8Vmg30cmpLP6ugxdY320K/d4SbTlMNmVhUwXPiDCa+Rd/XBw==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ericsson.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ericsson.com; dkim=pass header.d=ericsson.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=Xcf9Cqz8Doxe8c6F96vJeKaAsJmR9pcK5ewPOKIcrus=; b=HegsdORRXHzyfuBs+N4mpqsqPOloRcFrtHYActPp8gW1Ctf6QsAXRrbwZPfpKvCzIt7juB75gLduJQklKDf7Nl4gc+MXs/Rd6U3ddzBYlsQosHPVrgAHmi3m3u8jK6KdIRe03cqaXuQeOvEaS42m+eSUtqSslTZozY+N4mFcwgwgElVPujtcTrFPneYaW2inc44uimdgcEUMe+IKo0oE8drziZLBdvRPfOfwUhibzx3W5wYX2v+c4GUmFNVUOPIKT/fkq+cG0HuKGJgnzGrfkBU9UVJIpTTo8s0FDmWUP4vLpHU2CtyIe9Um1YOXbDBtw4WxFlufOVDixDADSJRE0w==
Received: from AS4PR07MB8825.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:4f3::15) by PA4PR07MB8416.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:102:2a4::9) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.21.245.6; Fri, 17 Jul 2026 22:46:43 +0000
Received: from AS4PR07MB8825.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::11a4:5f37:fa92:f174]) by AS4PR07MB8825.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::11a4:5f37:fa92:f174%6]) with mapi id 15.21.0245.003; Fri, 17 Jul 2026 22:46:43 +0000
From: John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com>
To: Muhammad Usama Sardar <muhammad_usama.sardar@tu-dresden.de>, IETF SAAG <saag@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [saag] Government–Industry Dialogue Public Side Meeting at IETF 126 Vienna
Thread-Index: AQHdFa64oXSUf4FkmUK0mqpwmMPQWLZxN1jigAAB0IyAAP4vAIAAEhRi
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2026 22:46:42 +0000
Message-ID: <AS4PR07MB8825178626CE15529680DB5F89C62@AS4PR07MB8825.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <AS4PR07MB88251AF6A139A9EEBCCEEEC789C62@AS4PR07MB8825.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <AS4PR07MB88256FA0117CDE9A45C6ED6689C62@AS4PR07MB8825.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <AS4PR07MB8825D8C909770C48999FCE3489C62@AS4PR07MB8825.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <f34030f9-ddf4-4430-98fe-61de3ee7dc8c@tu-dresden.de>
In-Reply-To: <f34030f9-ddf4-4430-98fe-61de3ee7dc8c@tu-dresden.de>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-GB
X-MS-Has-Attach: yes
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-ms-reactions: allow
authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=ericsson.com;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AS4PR07MB8825:EE_|PA4PR07MB8416:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c5a69b3d-a20c-4cf0-5524-08dee45545ef
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;ARA:13230040|23010399003|6049299003|376014|1800799024|366016|38070700021|4053099003|4013099003|13003099007|10067099003|56012099006|11063799006|18002099003|22082099003|8096899003|4143699003|3023799007;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:AS4PR07MB8825.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230040)(23010399003)(6049299003)(376014)(1800799024)(366016)(38070700021)(4053099003)(4013099003)(13003099007)(10067099003)(56012099006)(11063799006)(18002099003)(22082099003)(8096899003)(4143699003)(3023799007);DIR:OUT;SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg="sha256"; boundary="_1DF07139-3B17-F246-850D-A8BF429E5C61_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AS4PR07MB8825.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c5a69b3d-a20c-4cf0-5524-08dee45545ef
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Jul 2026 22:46:42.9084 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: bhJggJA6FnsvUUb7h9lAzK90FX0e3Xd0MI9i1kUYDu0bay5hB5zId7MTSt+kLD50ixAaUUpemynAuneM2qvSo7WbKYCXoBXkmqeNddO8I6Q=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PA4PR07MB8416
Message-ID-Hash: BAX25KPHCV3P7MRHYCA6LMOK4GJT5CLH
X-Message-ID-Hash: BAX25KPHCV3P7MRHYCA6LMOK4GJT5CLH
X-MailFrom: john.mattsson@ericsson.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-saag.ietf.org-0; header-match-saag.ietf.org-1; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [saag] Re: Government–Industry Dialogue Public Side Meeting at IETF 126 Vienna
List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group <saag.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/saag/pNftyndRohYfwpSULbyPaUQNY7U>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/saag>
List-Help: <mailto:saag-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:saag-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:saag@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:saag-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:saag-leave@ietf.org>

It is a public side meeting. Everyone is welcome.


Cheers,
John Preuß Mattsson


From: Muhammad Usama Sardar <muhammad_usama.sardar@tu-dresden.de>
Date: Friday, 17 July 2026 at 23:15
To: John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com>; IETF SAAG <saag@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [saag] Government–Industry Dialogue Public Side Meeting at IETF 126 Vienna



Hi John,
Thanks for organizing this. It is great to have government and industry together.

However, could you please clarify whether you want to have "Public Side Meeting" or "Private Meeting" as mentioned in [0]? While I am interested, your current framing seems not to allow me to participate, as I am neither in government nor in industry.

The subject of email says "Public Side Meeting" but as formally stated on the official webpage of the side meetings [0]: (emphasis my own)

[Public] Side meetings should be open and free to attend to any registered IETF participant.

So if you want to have Public Side Meeting, I don't think you can limit it to government and industry participants. Often government and industry participants do not have the time or skills to do the formal proofs. Mostly academic and research institute participants help in that perspective, and sometimes even find some subtle cases or useful assumptions, which may not be obvious while just looking at the protocol. I don't see a good reason to exclude such participants.


On the other hand, if you want to have Private Meeting, my understanding from [0] is that you would be welcome to limit it to whatever you want, but then I don't think you can use the Public Side Meeting rooms for that.



On 17.07.26 08:06, John Mattsson wrote:

Post-Quantum Cryptography: Government–Industry Dialogue

This side meeting will bring together government and industry stakeholders to discuss [...]



In particular, I find the above scoping of participants problematic for Public Side Meeting. So please clarify.

Best,
-Usama



[0] https://www.ietf.org/meeting/side-meetings/ <margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;>

v2.46.0 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status