Re: [Sigtran] question about m3UA

["Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[e-mail]>]

Samuel,

What question did you need me to answer?

--brian

Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan wrote:                                                     (Tue, 12 Aug 2003 23:56:25)
> 
> Brian,
>  Why dont you answer to this email?
> 
>  If you want to change IG then please answer the email.
> 
>  (i dont want to go back to old email, just i referred)
> 
> --Samuel
> 
>   Alcatel USA, Inc.                  Internet: <userid>@ssd.usa.alcatel.com
>   1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075
>   ******* The opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA, Inc. *******
> 
> On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Brian,
> >  Huh, it is not an implementation dependent, rfc says 
> >  ASPs which are in that AS should coordinate among themselves the number
> >  of active ASPs in the AS.So it is clear to SGP that first arrived
> >  'n' ASPs will receive NTFY(AS-INACT) message.
> > 
> >  If you want to send NTFY(AS-INACT) to all ASPes(other than DOWN state)
> >  you are not restricted but it is not mandatory to send, thats what i
> >  am saying from the beginning.
> > 
> >  Keep IG as it is.
> > --Samuel
> > 
> >   Alcatel USA, Inc.                  Internet: <userid>@ssd.usa.alcatel.com
> >   1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075
> >   ******* The opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA, Inc. *******
> > 
> > On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
> > 
> > > Samuel,
> > > 
> > > Maybe clear to the ASPs depending on implementation, but not
> > > clear to the SGP.  If the NTFY(AS-INACTIVE) is not going to be
> > > used by any of the ASPs, why send it in the first place?
> > > If it serves a purpose, it should be sent to all of them to avoid
> > > the race condition.
> > > 
> > > --brian
> > > 
> > > Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan wrote:                                                     (Fri, 08 Aug 2003 04:36:50)
> > > > 
> > > > Brian,
> > > >  We all know that in n+k redundancy case that ASPes will coordinate
> > > >  among themselves the number of active ASPs in the AS, here it is
> > > >  clear that who is going to go to ACTIVE state then where is the
> > > >  question of race condition?
> > > > 
> > > > --Samuel
> > > > 
> > > >   Alcatel USA, Inc.                  Internet: <userid>@ssd.usa.alcatel.com
> > > >   1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075
> > > >   ******* The opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA, Inc. *******
> > > > 
> > > > On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Samuel,
> > > > > 
> > > > > What if ASP1 and ASP3 receive it but ASP2 did not, just because
> > > > > ASP3's ASPUP arrived before ASP2's.  That is a race condition.
> > > > > This is why it is wise (and "SHOULD" is appropriate) to avoid
> > > > > the race condition by sending NTFY(AS-INACTIVVE) to all of the
> > > > > ASPs when they come up.  It should not be optional.  It is necessary
> > > > > to proper interworking that this race be broken.
> > > > > 
> > > > > --brian
> > > > > 
> > > > > Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan wrote:                                                     (Fri, 08 Aug 2003 04:17:31)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Brian,
> > > > > >  Ok,say ASP1,ASP2 and ASP3 send ASP-UP message respectively, but ASP1 and
> > > > > >  ASP2 received NTFY(AS-INACT) but ASP3 did not.
> > > > > >  Now ASP1 sends ASP-ACT message then ASP3 sends ASP-ACT message,
> > > > > >  here it is mandatory to send NTFY(AS-ACT) to both ASPes(ASP1 and ASP3).
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >  This is the reason i said it is an optional of sending NTFY(AS-INACT)
> > > > > >  to 'n+1'th ASP.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --Samuel
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >   Alcatel USA, Inc.                  Internet: <userid>@ssd.usa.alcatel.com
> > > > > >   1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075
> > > > > >   ******* The opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA, Inc. *******
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Samuel,
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Yes, I have a problem, because it is a race condition.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > --brian
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan wrote:                                                     (Fri, 08 Aug 2003 04:04:50)
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Brian,
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > >   I meant first 2 ASPes will receive NTFY messages.Sending NTFY to 
> > > > > > > >   3rd ASP is an optional.Do you have any problem here?
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > --Samuel
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > >   Alcatel USA, Inc.                  Internet: <userid>@ssd.usa.alcatel.com
> > > > > > > >   1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075
> > > > > > > >   ******* The opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA, Inc. *******
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Samuel,
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > None of the ASPs are handling traffic at that point.  Who is to say
> > > > > > > > > that ASP1 and ASP2 are the 'n' and ASP3 is the 'k'.  Perhaps ASP2
> > > > > > > > > and ASP3 are the 'n' and ASP1 is the 'k'.  The SGP surely doesn't know.
> > > > > > > > > Sending NTFY(AS-INACTIVE) to all of them is the wisest choice.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > --brian
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan wrote:                                                     (Fri, 08 Aug 2003 03:47:30)
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Ling-Chih Kao and Brian,
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > In n+k reduntancy case,when n=2 that means ASP1 and ASP2 are going to
> > > > > > > > > > handle the traffic.So sending NTFY to these ASPes is mandatory.
> > > > > > > > > > Sending NTFY to ASP3 is an optional because it is not going to handle 
> > > > > > > > > > the traffic.When ASP1 or ASP2 goes down then ASP3 will come up to take
> > > > > > > > > > over the traffic this case SGP will send a NTFY message with AS state,
> > > > > > > > > > here it is mandatory to send NTFY to ASP3.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > --Samuel
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > >   Alcatel USA, Inc.                  Internet: <userid>@ssd.usa.alcatel.com
> > > > > > > > > >   1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075
> > > > > > > > > >   ******* The opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA, Inc. *******
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Ling-Chih Kao wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > From the new definition of AS-INACTIVE in sec 4.3.2 of
> > > > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-sigtran-m3ua-implementors-guide-04.txt>, the AS becomes
> > > > > > > > > > > AS-INACTIVE when there are at least n ASPs in either ASP-INACTIVE or
> > > > > > > > > > > AS-ACTIVE.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, in sec. 5.1.4, AS becomes AS-INACTIVE when SGP receives two ASP
> > > > > > > > > > > UP (from ASP1 and ASP2).  However, when the SGP receives  ASP UP from ASP3,
> > > > > > > > > > > SGP does not  send NOTIFY (AS-INACTIVE) to ASP3. I want to know whether it
> > > > > > > > > > > is optional or not?
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > > > > > > Ling-Chih Kao
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: "Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan" <[e-mail]>
> > > > > > > > > > > To: "Ling-Chih Kao" <[e-mail]>
> > > > > > > > > > > Cc: "sigtran" <[e-mail]>
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 3:41 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Sigtran] question about m3UA
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > Ling-Chih Kao,
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > NTFY(AS-INACT) is sent to all all available peer ASPes.
> > > > > > > > > > > Note: Available peer means an ASP which received ASP-UP-ACK
> > > > > > > > > > > in response to ASP-UP messages.(as per RFC section 4.3.4.1).
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > If you active the AS as soon as a single ASP goes to ASP-INACT
> > > > > > > > > > > state then it is obvious that whoever sends ASP-UP message to
> > > > > > > > > > > SGP, immediately SGP will send a NTFY(AS-INACT) to the concern
> > > > > > > > > > > ASP followd by ASP-UP-ACK.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > --Samuel
> > > > > > > > > > >   Alcatel USA, Inc.                  Internet: <userid>@ssd.usa.alcatel.com
> > > > > > > > > > >   1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075
> > > > > > > > > > >   ******* The opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA, Inc. *******
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Ling-Chih Kao wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > After SGP receives the ASP UP from ASP1, SGP should immediately send
> > > > > > > > > > > > NOTIFY(AS-INACTIVE)   to all ASP in the same AS. Is this right?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ling-Chih Kao
> > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan" <[e-mail]>
> > > > > > > > > > > > To: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[e-mail]>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: <[e-mail]>; "Ling-Chih Kao" <[e-mail]>;
> > > > > > > > > > > "sigtran"
> > > > > > > > > > > > <[e-mail]>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 1:22 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Sigtran] question about m3UA
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Brian,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > kakaul,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > But I think that we agreed that it would be wise to tell newly inactive
> > > > > > > > > > > >                                                       ------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ASPs that state of the AS.  Also, in the diagram, the state of the AS
> > > > > > > > > > > >   -------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > What does ASP3 do with NOTIFY(AS-INACTIVE)?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Whenever AS state-change happens at SGP, a NTFY will be sent to all ASPes
> > > > > > > > > > > > (other than DOWN-ASPes) pertaining to the same RC.
> > > > > > > > > > > > This is what i remember that everybody agreed.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --Samuel
> > > > > > > > > > > > > does not change with the second ASP (ASP2) sending ASPUP.  The AS
> > > > > > > > > > > changes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > state to AS-INACTIVE with ASP1 coming up.  Therefore, the diagram should
> > > > > > > > > > > > > show a NOTIFY(AS-INACTIVE) being sent to each ASP immediately after the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ASPUP Ack is sent to the ASP in question.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The diagram is quite wrong.  Also it is wrong considering the changes to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > be made to the next issue of the IG.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --brian
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > [e-mail] wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > (Tue, 05 Aug 2003 09:31:47)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On receiving ASPUP message from ASP3 state of AS does not change, so
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTIFY(AS-INACTIVE) is not send to ASP3.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kamesh
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Ling-Chih Kao" <[e-mail]>@ietf.org on 08/04/2003 11:40:01
> > > > > > > > > > > > AM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent by:    [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To:    "sigtran" <[e-mail]>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > cc:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject:    [Sigtran] question about m3UA
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Should ASP3 in the Section 5.1.4 of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <draft-ietf-sigtran-m3ua-implementors-guide-04.txt> receive
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTIFY(AS-INACTIVE)?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanls
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ling-Chih Kao
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sigtran mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sigtran
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Brian F. G. Bidulock
> > > > > > > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.openss7.org/
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sigtran mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sigtran
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sigtran mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sigtran
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sigtran mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sigtran
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > Sigtran mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sigtran
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Sigtran mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sigtran
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > -- 
> > > > > > > > > Brian F. G. Bidulock
> > > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > http://www.openss7.org/
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Sigtran mailing list
> > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sigtran
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > -- 
> > > > > > > Brian F. G. Bidulock
> > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > http://www.openss7.org/
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > -- 
> > > > > Brian F. G. Bidulock
> > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > http://www.openss7.org/
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Brian F. G. Bidulock
> > > [e-mail]
> > > http://www.openss7.org/
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sigtran mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sigtran
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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> > 
> > 

-- 
Brian F. G. Bidulock
[e-mail]
http://www.openss7.org/

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