Re: [Sigtran] question about m3UA

["Ling-Chih Kao" <[e-mail]>]

Hi, Samuel

1.
ASP3  in Sec. 5.1.4 did not send ASP Act. to SGP; however,  it  received
NOTIFY (AS-ACTIVE).

This NOTIFY is also optional whether ASP3 send ASP Act. to SGP or not.
That's right ?

Should ASP3 send  ASP Act. to SGP?

2.
Should ASP3 send  ASP UP to SGP?

If ASP3 did not sent ASP UP to SGP, reception of NOTIFY(AS-INACTIVE) is also
optional. Or, ASP3 will not receive  NOTIFY(AS-INACTIVE) because ASP3 does
not sent ASP UP to SGP.


Ling-Chih Kao

----- Original Message -----
From: "Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan" <[e-mail]>
To: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[e-mail]>
Cc: "Ling-Chih Kao" <[e-mail]>; "sigtran" <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Sigtran] question about m3UA



Brian,
 If it is mandatory to send NTFY(AS-STATE) to all ASPes(other than down),
 Why dont we send SS7 node availability status(like DUNA,DAVA,DRST...)
 to all INACTIVE-ASPes?(because anyway when INACTIVE-ASP moves to ACTIVE
 ASP, it should know the status of SS7 nodes but finally it was decided
 that newly active ASP will send an DAUD and gets the SS7 node(s) status
 or SGP may send SS7 node(s) status to the newly active ASP.)
 This i suggested long back(i think you remeber) but you strongly opposed
 it. Now you are partially true with my old arguments.

--Samuel

  Alcatel USA, Inc.                  Internet: <userid>@ssd.usa.alcatel.com
  1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075
  ******* The opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA, Inc. *******

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:

> Ling-Chih,
>
> Mandatory.  All ASP-INACTIVE ASPs for an AS receive notifications
> of state change.  ASP3 is ASP-INACTIVE in this case and must receive
> the notification.
>
> The contentious case is when an ASP (ASP3) becomes ASP-INACTIVE from
> ASP-DOWN.  I believe that the SGP should notify the newly inactive
> ASP of the current state of the AS (which it did not receive before).
> Samuel thinks that they should somehow guess the state of the AS.
>
> --brian
>
> Ling-Chih Kao wrote:
(Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:55:25)
> > Hi, Brian and Samuel
> >
> > The answer for both of you is different.
> > See again in Sec. 5.1.4, the ASP3 is for backup. ASP3 did not sent ASP
Act.
> > to SGP. Why did it receive NOTIFY(AS-ACTIVE) ? This is optional or
> > mandatory?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Ling-Chih Kao
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan" <[e-mail]>
> > To: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[e-mail]>
> > Cc: "Ling-Chih Kao" <[e-mail]>; "sigtran" <[e-mail]>
> > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 6:08 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Sigtran] question about m3UA
> >
> >
> >
> > Brian,
> >  Huh, it is not an implementation dependent, rfc says
> >  ASPs which are in that AS should coordinate among themselves the number
> >  of active ASPs in the AS.So it is clear to SGP that first arrived
> >  'n' ASPs will receive NTFY(AS-INACT) message.
> >
> >  If you want to send NTFY(AS-INACT) to all ASPes(other than DOWN state)
> >  you are not restricted but it is not mandatory to send, thats what i
> >  am saying from the beginning.
> >
> >  Keep IG as it is.
> > --Samuel
> >
> >   Alcatel USA, Inc.                  Internet:
<userid>@ssd.usa.alcatel.com
> >   1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075
> >   ******* The opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA, Inc.
*******
> >
> > On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
> >
> > > Samuel,
> > >
> > > Maybe clear to the ASPs depending on implementation, but not
> > > clear to the SGP.  If the NTFY(AS-INACTIVE) is not going to be
> > > used by any of the ASPs, why send it in the first place?
> > > If it serves a purpose, it should be sent to all of them to avoid
> > > the race condition.
> > >
> > > --brian
> > >
> > > Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan wrote:
> > (Fri, 08 Aug 2003 04:36:50)
> > > >
> > > > Brian,
> > > >  We all know that in n+k redundancy case that ASPes will coordinate
> > > >  among themselves the number of active ASPs in the AS, here it is
> > > >  clear that who is going to go to ACTIVE state then where is the
> > > >  question of race condition?
> > > >
> > > > --Samuel
> > > >
> > > >   Alcatel USA, Inc.                  Internet:
> > <userid>@ssd.usa.alcatel.com
> > > >   1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075
> > > >   ******* The opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA, Inc.
> > *******
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Samuel,
> > > > >
> > > > > What if ASP1 and ASP3 receive it but ASP2 did not, just because
> > > > > ASP3's ASPUP arrived before ASP2's.  That is a race condition.
> > > > > This is why it is wise (and "SHOULD" is appropriate) to avoid
> > > > > the race condition by sending NTFY(AS-INACTIVVE) to all of the
> > > > > ASPs when they come up.  It should not be optional.  It is
necessary
> > > > > to proper interworking that this race be broken.
> > > > >
> > > > > --brian
> > > > >
> > > > > Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan wrote:
> > (Fri, 08 Aug 2003 04:17:31)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brian,
> > > > > >  Ok,say ASP1,ASP2 and ASP3 send ASP-UP message respectively, but
> > ASP1 and
> > > > > >  ASP2 received NTFY(AS-INACT) but ASP3 did not.
> > > > > >  Now ASP1 sends ASP-ACT message then ASP3 sends ASP-ACT message,
> > > > > >  here it is mandatory to send NTFY(AS-ACT) to both ASPes(ASP1
and
> > ASP3).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  This is the reason i said it is an optional of sending
> > NTFY(AS-INACT)
> > > > > >  to 'n+1'th ASP.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --Samuel
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   Alcatel USA, Inc.                  Internet:
> > <userid>@ssd.usa.alcatel.com
> > > > > >   1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075
> > > > > >   ******* The opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA,
Inc.
> > *******
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Samuel,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, I have a problem, because it is a race condition.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --brian
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan wrote:
> > (Fri, 08 Aug 2003 04:04:50)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Brian,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >   I meant first 2 ASPes will receive NTFY messages.Sending
NTFY
> > to
> > > > > > > >   3rd ASP is an optional.Do you have any problem here?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --Samuel
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >   Alcatel USA, Inc.                  Internet:
> > <userid>@ssd.usa.alcatel.com
> > > > > > > >   1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075
> > > > > > > >   ******* The opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel
USA,
> > Inc. *******
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Samuel,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > None of the ASPs are handling traffic at that point.  Who
is
> > to say
> > > > > > > > > that ASP1 and ASP2 are the 'n' and ASP3 is the 'k'.
Perhaps
> > ASP2
> > > > > > > > > and ASP3 are the 'n' and ASP1 is the 'k'.  The SGP surely
> > doesn't know.
> > > > > > > > > Sending NTFY(AS-INACTIVE) to all of them is the wisest
choice.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --brian
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan wrote:
> > (Fri, 08 Aug 2003 03:47:30)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ling-Chih Kao and Brian,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In n+k reduntancy case,when n=2 that means ASP1 and ASP2
are
> > going to
> > > > > > > > > > handle the traffic.So sending NTFY to these ASPes is
> > mandatory.
> > > > > > > > > > Sending NTFY to ASP3 is an optional because it is not
going
> > to handle
> > > > > > > > > > the traffic.When ASP1 or ASP2 goes down then ASP3 will
come
> > up to take
> > > > > > > > > > over the traffic this case SGP will send a NTFY message
with
> > AS state,
> > > > > > > > > > here it is mandatory to send NTFY to ASP3.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --Samuel
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >   Alcatel USA, Inc.                  Internet:
> > <userid>@ssd.usa.alcatel.com
> > > > > > > > > >   1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075
> > > > > > > > > >   ******* The opinions expressed are not those of
Alcatel
> > USA, Inc. *******
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Ling-Chih Kao wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > From the new definition of AS-INACTIVE in sec 4.3.2 of
> > > > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-sigtran-m3ua-implementors-guide-04.txt>,
the AS
> > becomes
> > > > > > > > > > > AS-INACTIVE when there are at least n ASPs in either
> > ASP-INACTIVE or
> > > > > > > > > > > AS-ACTIVE.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, in sec. 5.1.4, AS becomes AS-INACTIVE when
SGP
> > receives two ASP
> > > > > > > > > > > UP (from ASP1 and ASP2).  However, when the SGP
receives
> > ASP UP from ASP3,
> > > > > > > > > > > SGP does not  send NOTIFY (AS-INACTIVE) to ASP3. I
want to
> > know whether it
> > > > > > > > > > > is optional or not?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > > > > > > Ling-Chih Kao
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: "Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan"
> > <[e-mail]>
> > > > > > > > > > > To: "Ling-Chih Kao" <[e-mail]>
> > > > > > > > > > > Cc: "sigtran" <[e-mail]>
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 3:41 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Sigtran] question about m3UA
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Ling-Chih Kao,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > NTFY(AS-INACT) is sent to all all available peer
ASPes.
> > > > > > > > > > > Note: Available peer means an ASP which received
> > ASP-UP-ACK
> > > > > > > > > > > in response to ASP-UP messages.(as per RFC section
> > 4.3.4.1).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If you active the AS as soon as a single ASP goes to
> > ASP-INACT
> > > > > > > > > > > state then it is obvious that whoever sends ASP-UP
message
> > to
> > > > > > > > > > > SGP, immediately SGP will send a NTFY(AS-INACT) to the
> > concern
> > > > > > > > > > > ASP followd by ASP-UP-ACK.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --Samuel
> > > > > > > > > > >   Alcatel USA, Inc.                  Internet:
> > <userid>@ssd.usa.alcatel.com
> > > > > > > > > > >   1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075
> > > > > > > > > > >   ******* The opinions expressed are not those of
Alcatel
> > USA, Inc. *******
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Ling-Chih Kao wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > After SGP receives the ASP UP from ASP1, SGP should
> > immediately send
> > > > > > > > > > > > NOTIFY(AS-INACTIVE)   to all ASP in the same AS. Is
this
> > right?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ling-Chih Kao
> > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Samuel Dur D. Jeyaseelan"
> > <[e-mail]>
> > > > > > > > > > > > To: "Brian F. G. Bidulock" <[e-mail]>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: <[e-mail]>; "Ling-Chih Kao"
> > <[e-mail]>;
> > > > > > > > > > > "sigtran"
> > > > > > > > > > > > <[e-mail]>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 1:22 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Sigtran] question about m3UA
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Brian,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Brian F. G. Bidulock wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > kakaul,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > But I think that we agreed that it would be wise
to
> > tell newly inactive
> > > > > > > > > > >
> >   ------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ASPs that state of the AS.  Also, in the diagram,
the
> > state of the AS
> > > > > > > > > > > >   -------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > What does ASP3 do with NOTIFY(AS-INACTIVE)?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Whenever AS state-change happens at SGP, a NTFY will
be
> > sent to all ASPes
> > > > > > > > > > > > (other than DOWN-ASPes) pertaining to the same RC.
> > > > > > > > > > > > This is what i remember that everybody agreed.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --Samuel
> > > > > > > > > > > > > does not change with the second ASP (ASP2) sending
> > ASPUP.  The AS
> > > > > > > > > > > changes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > state to AS-INACTIVE with ASP1 coming up.
Therefore,
> > the diagram should
> > > > > > > > > > > > > show a NOTIFY(AS-INACTIVE) being sent to each ASP
> > immediately after the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ASPUP Ack is sent to the ASP in question.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The diagram is quite wrong.  Also it is wrong
> > considering the changes to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > be made to the next issue of the IG.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --brian
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > [e-mail] wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > (Tue, 05 Aug 2003 09:31:47)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On receiving ASPUP message from ASP3 state of AS
> > does not change, so
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTIFY(AS-INACTIVE) is not send to ASP3.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kamesh
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Ling-Chih Kao" <[e-mail]>@ietf.org
on
> > 08/04/2003 11:40:01
> > > > > > > > > > > > AM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent by:    [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To:    "sigtran" <[e-mail]>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > cc:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject:    [Sigtran] question about m3UA
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Should ASP3 in the Section 5.1.4 of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
<draft-ietf-sigtran-m3ua-implementors-guide-04.txt>
> > receive
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTIFY(AS-INACTIVE)?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanls
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ling-Chih Kao
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sigtran mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sigtran
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Brian F. G. Bidulock
> > > > > > > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.openss7.org/
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sigtran mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sigtran
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sigtran mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sigtran
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sigtran mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sigtran
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > Sigtran mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sigtran
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Sigtran mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sigtran
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > Brian F. G. Bidulock
> > > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > > http://www.openss7.org/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Sigtran mailing list
> > > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sigtran
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Brian F. G. Bidulock
> > > > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > > > http://www.openss7.org/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Brian F. G. Bidulock
> > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > > http://www.openss7.org/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Brian F. G. Bidulock
> > > [e-mail]
> > > http://www.openss7.org/
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sigtran mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sigtran
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sigtran mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sigtran
>
> --
> Brian F. G. Bidulock
> [e-mail]
> http://www.openss7.org/
>
>


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