AW: [Sipping] A Framework for Reducing Spam for Internet Telephony

["Tschofenig, Hannes" <[e-mail]>]

Hi Saverio, 

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Saverio Niccolini [mailto:[e-mail]] 
> Gesendet: Freitag, 15. Juni 2007 11:24
> An: Hannes Tschofenig; SIPPING LIST
> Betreff: RE: [Sipping] A Framework for Reducing Spam for 
> Internet Telephony
> 
> Dear Hannes,
> 
> This is a nice work that clearly matches also what we have in 
> mind for the SPIT prevention system we are currently running.
> 
> Actually I wanted to let you know that for some of the 
> interactions or authorization policies you describe in Figure 
> 1 there are already available drafts that propose solutions:
> http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-niccolini-sipping-feedback-spit-03.txt
> or describe scenarios for the interactions:
> http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-niccolini-sipping-spitstop-00.txt
> 
> It would be nice to have them referenced as well in the draft.

There are quite a number of solutions proposals floating around. 
We tried to avoid too many references but some more would not hurt. What do you think is particularly interesting to mention in the context of the framework?

One of the main ideas for writing the framework document was to identify the minimum functionality you need to standardize
now. Other things can be done in the future -- potentially never. 

> 
> Moreover, our SPIT prevention framework (you can find 
> references of it in proceedings of Globecom 2006) uses 
> already some of the authorization policies you are describing 
> also in the other draft (http://fon.gs/spit-requirements), namely:
> -- we have built white/black list based on identities (or 
> part of it), this matches Req-C 1 and Req-C 2
> -- we block certain messages based on the spam-level marking, 
> this supports Req-C 7
> -- we mark the messages with a certain spam-level and forward 
> this to the caller, this supports Req-A 2
> -- we use some kind of Turing Tests built in answering 
> machines, this supports Req-A 4
> -- we also run anomaly detection methods able to mark the 
> calls and make this available for other entities, this 
> supports Req-T 1

So, it seems that you think that many of the requirements are in fact reasonable. 

Have you spotted missing functionality or functionality you wouldn't provide immediately (or not at all)?


> 
> I think all in all these two drafts you recently wrote 
> complement well the SPITSTOP work we are currently discussing 
> in the SPITSTOP mailing list, it is just a pity that they are 
> coming too late to support the BOF request that was just rejected.


We have been trying hard to get the documents finished but that was the best we were able todo. 
In fact, we wanted to write the document already a year ago when I went out for dinner with Henning Schulzrinne, Jonathan Rosenberg, Dan York and David Schwartz.

Btw, I was actually hoping that we don't really need a BOF to get this work started. We don't schedule BOFs for every tiny document we write. 


> 
> I hope we can sit together in Chicago at the BAR BOF and 
> discuss the way to move the all work on SPIT forward in the IETF.
I hope so too. 


Ciao
Hannes

> Cheers,
> Saverio
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Hannes Tschofenig [mailto:[e-mail]]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 1:29 PM
> > To: SIPPING LIST
> > Subject: [Sipping] A Framework for Reducing Spam for 
> Internet Telephony
> > 
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > we have just submitted a new draft on "A Framework for 
> Reducing Spam for
> > Internet Telephony".
> > Please find the document here: http://fon.gs/spit-framework
> > 
> > This document attempts to scope the work on reducing Spam 
> for Internet
> > Telephony.
> > 
> > Ciao
> > Hannes
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sipping mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping
> > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP
> > Use [e-mail] for questions on current sip
> > Use [e-mail] for new developments of core SIP
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> From [e-mail] Sat Jun 16 10:07:53 2007
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Subject: AW: [Sipping] A Framework for Reducing Spam for Internet Telephony
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 21:51:47 +0200
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Thread-Topic: [Sipping] A Framework for Reducing Spam for Internet Telephony
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From: "Tschofenig, Hannes" <[e-mail]>
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Hi Juergen, 

> Hi Hannes,
> 
> Thank you for this contribution.  It helps a lot structuring the work
> on SPIT.  Unfortunately it comes too late for supporting the SPIT BoF
> proposal which was rejected by the IESG.
As I replied to Saverio that was unfortunate timing. 

> 
> Let's discuss at a bar BoF in Chicago when is the right time and what
> is the right approach for the IETF to include more work on SPIT into
> WG charters.
It would be good to start discussions already earlier since we believe
that there isn't such a huge amount of work that has to be done
initially. There might be more in the future, if people see a need for
it. Via the extensiblity mechanisms you can enhance functionality later,
as needed. 

Ciao
Hannes

> 
> Thanks,
> 
>     Juergen
> 
> --On 14.06.07 13:29 +0200 Hannes Tschofenig wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > we have just submitted a new draft on "A Framework for 
> Reducing Spam for
> > Internet Telephony".
> > Please find the document here: http://fon.gs/spit-framework
> >
> > This document attempts to scope the work on reducing Spam 
> for Internet
> > Telephony.
> >
> > Ciao
> > Hannes
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sipping mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/lisSipping mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping
> This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP
> Use [e-mail] for questions on current sip
> Use [e-mail] for new developments of core SIP
> 


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tinfo/sipping
> > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP
> > Use [e-mail] for questions on current sip
> > Use [e-mail] for new developments of core SIP
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Juergen Quittek        [e-mail]       Tel: +49 
> 6221 4342-115
> NEC Europe Limited,    Network Laboratories        Fax: +49 
> 6221 4342-155
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> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sipping mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping
> This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP
> Use [e-mail] for questions on current sip
> Use [e-mail] for new developments of core SIP
> 


_______________________________________________
Sipping mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping
This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP
Use [e-mail] for questions on current sip
Use [e-mail] for new developments of core SIP