Re: [Slim] Issues #27 and #32 - simultaneous languages

[Randall Gellens <[e-mail]>]

Hi Gunnar,

You propose an interesting mechanism that I think 
should be pursued, just not in the current draft. 
We've repeatedly discussed means of requesting 
various services, including real-time captioning; 
these are useful and an automated way of 
requesting that seems useful, but the group has 
repeatedly decided to keep the current draft 
simple.  As with your suggestion for relative 
preference and priority, I've offered to help 
write a separate draft, and Brian has offered to 
review it.  I think this is the way to proceed.

At 9:28 PM +0200 6/2/17, Gunnar Hellström wrote:

>  For the case that result of decision on Ticket 
> #34 is that we stay on the current one-line 
> syntax, I want to show how the solution on 
> tickets #27 and #32 can be expressed regarding 
> how to indicate need for simultaneous media.
>
>  The application is e.g. rapidly added 
> subtitling of audio in the text stream, or 
> added sign language interpretation of audio in 
> the video stream.
>
>  This would be for simultaneous use, when the 
> user has value also of the original language in 
> the same direction.
>
>  My simple proposal is to use the t language 
> subtag on the extra provided language. Defined 
> in RFC 6497.
>
>  If this addition would go into the current 
> draft, it could be done with the following 
> modifications.
>
>  ---Change 1. ---
>
>  In 5.2
>
>  ---old text---
>
>  Note that [RFC5646] Section 4.1 advises to "tag 
> content wisely" and not include unnecessary 
> subtags.
>
>  ---new text----
>
>
>  Note that [RFC5646] Section 4.1 advises to "tag 
> content wisely" and not include unnecessary 
> subtags.
>
>  An indication of a transformed version of a 
> language provided simultaneously with the 
> original but in another media, should be 
> indicated by inserting a 't' extension after 
> the language expected to be in transformed 
> form. It is therefore of special importance to 
> consider this possible use of the  't' 
> extension during language matching. The use of 
> this indication is for provision of rapid 
> subtitling of speech and interpretation between 
> sign language and spoken language when there is 
> an interest to also provide the original. The 
> 't' extension of BCP47 is specified in RFC 
> 6497[RFC6497].
>
>  See section 5.x for further information and 
> discussion on the indication of simultaneous 
> languages. 
>
>  ---end of change 1----
>
>  ---Change 2, new text 5.x--------------
>
>  5.x Transformed simultaneous language
>
>  In certain applications it is of interest to 
> indicate a transformed version of the contents 
> of a media stream in another media, while still 
> also providing the original.
>
>  This may for example be for rapid subtitling of 
> speech either manually or automatically. It may 
> also be sign language interpretation of speech, 
> or spoken interpretation of sign language.
>
>  When the transformed language is provided or 
> requested simultaneously with the original, 
> this condition should be indicated by using the 
> T extension to BCP47 as specified in RFC 
> 6497[RFC6497], by attaching a t subtag on the 
> language tag for the language that is expected 
> to be provided in a transformed modality.
>
>  Briefly, the 't' extension consists of the 
> string "-t" followed by the source language 
> subtag.
>
>  Example: "en-t-en"   is an English transform of 
> an English source (in another modality).
>
>  On reception of an indication including a 
> language with the 't' extension for the receive 
> direction, the answering party should interpret 
> this as a request to send both the original and 
> the transformed content provided that both are 
> included in the indications. (e.g. both spoken 
> and written )
>
>  On reception of an indication including an 
> offer of a language with the 't' extension for 
> the send direction, the answering party should 
> interpret this as a request to arrange for 
> reception of both the original and the 
> transformed content simultaneously.
>
>  The media that the 't' extension is attached to 
> should only be interpreted as an expectation 
> for how the transformation will be made. 
> Conditions in the established session MAY cause 
> the original and transformation to swap roles 
> from what the subtags indicated.
>
>
>
>
>  ---add new text last in current section 5.5 - examples----------
>
>  Example: A request for a written English 
> subtitling to be received by the caller in the 
> text stream created from a spoken English 
> source in the audio stream. The caller also 
> indicates a preference to speak English:
>
>        m=audio 49250 RTP/AVP 20
>        a=hlang-recv:en
>        a=hlang-send:en*
>
>        m=text 45020 RTP/AVP 103 104
>        a=hlang-recv:en-t-en*
>
>   An acknowledgement of the request:
>
>        m=audio 49250 RTP/AVP 20
>        a=hlang-send:en
>        a=hlang-recv:en
>
>        m=text 45020 RTP/AVP 103 104
>        a=hlang-send:en-t-en
>
>  In the session, the caller will receive both 
> spoken English and written English. The caller 
> will send English speech.
>
>  ----end of new text -------------------------
>   ------add to references----
>
>  [rfc6497] RFC 6497 Davis, M. et.al. "BCP 47 
> Extension T - Transformed Content", RFC 6497, 
> February 2012.
>
>  -----end of changes ------------
>
>
>
>  --
>  -----------------------------------------
>  Gunnar Hellström
>  Omnitor
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>[e-mail]
>  [phone]
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  SLIM mailing list
>  [e-mail]
>  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/slim


-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
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Hungary was illegal.               --Martin Luther King, Jr., 1963