Re: [Snac] draft-ietf-snac-simple-01 review comments

Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Mon, 24 July 2023 19:25 UTC

Return-Path: <mellon@fugue.com>
X-Original-To: snac@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: snac@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72F7FC151B18 for <snac@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 12:25:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.898
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20221208.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5D5JBLLq2kSO for <snac@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 12:25:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAFA8C151B14 for <snac@ietf.org>; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 12:25:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-63cf69f3c22so15307666d6.3 for <snac@ietf.org>; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 12:25:12 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20221208.gappssmtp.com; s=20221208; t=1690226711; x=1690831511; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=K+jjR7mM0WzkW6/0b+qbcknUfG1Sh2ekRcr7QULLrfo=; b=if+JB0t1qzqtmTrWM+ktQBmoWQS+Nob2ewhjpy3aCu+sPr2pEXfHrgUMLKPf9uaPsB 5QMDUzWQn385FY9zVZO+PCvtUqmbjNxmu2kvhT/dhccV2+mL+vjw7wzZcJAxkOrFgnCc LT/ozQDAHKjKQvFTEbx6rygDTybcKdQLsPvP8d507veI2eXsL2GBXoXsgOlLqk/zxfDC wjisp6ZPZ+K4d6IIOMDxb1hwk7F82OizK8RhMF+e2L7FFEyLd9SGVCiazNQuc3kVwn95 ZVMvsq/dvIgN/BOSdZd4EDB44ZhFUmLJMLQRHwjqfHT8+dqBk6AURQIQXtQoDV5IbwVZ 9QZw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1690226711; x=1690831511; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=K+jjR7mM0WzkW6/0b+qbcknUfG1Sh2ekRcr7QULLrfo=; b=eanTxVcsHCjHJvhzodH16ZxSq4LJu8bXSkmtPzs+sJkIoUmwQC51xhmLfEAO72xo3q 9veqMdYhjWHTNE3W97DN2eKnSDHmnT8nme8zo541lLUVQftjSaKUra6rGYegO1QZCywa jyjw1M2N5QoFIspp6BIquaPrQ+Mz1UlhEvl/SNQFeTqhlJ/AZzOp+mi4CggyWSi1aB2i Ja0ycYuaUFTUges5unCReYw+BOgyI2yfBuNb/1FP9o+9BsJhmGIz62fCkt39CNpGa5sc fOKjhWU1OylTHbAtL17cSvlcGqZuyTaBc6sBy+Yv7qX1DotyyuRNA1ktDvGahBc0cz67 Fmog==
X-Gm-Message-State: ABy/qLY3s1pckkUT04WJaaeZu4F5S+XzBuH7fbgynbeG1Hb/y+lNz68n Azk94Pn/ulH1/SRgsr4tm4iOVOdCppO0xOql0UdisRC9fIEwipbUys8=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APBJJlHzJkfDuGqVjxzXgX7YrIEf12faA2rGZq7K6t/VOgtDEeWtUwbWkg38A+0fO4jpOXZgWyfQox+nr9YJMsfDETI=
X-Received: by 2002:a0c:f211:0:b0:636:1722:8300 with SMTP id h17-20020a0cf211000000b0063617228300mr773867qvk.1.1690226711421; Mon, 24 Jul 2023 12:25:11 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <BL1PR11MB5366C82D3ECC50F851E4EC9DC87F9@BL1PR11MB5366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <19968.1684504919@localhost> <CAPt1N1kMOsSj_NYDF=Kigjm51GMZ7YzVVdxiwkva4vABmv1dOw@mail.gmail.com> <CAPt1N1nNXrCK_E9DgH9NyjMEu4_ROAcWS3iO6-oPF7LVkrLFyQ@mail.gmail.com> <27390.1690226158@localhost>
In-Reply-To: <27390.1690226158@localhost>
From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2023 12:25:00 -0700
Message-ID: <CAPt1N1nVisbYbxMxueu6r-g9+wCpa7Q34KAFcipgif2h0EsZCw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
Cc: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" <ddukes=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "snac@ietf.org" <snac@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b97c590601409201"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/snac/iaoZCrbYCLdSA8tMLuzIZcZX6nM>
Subject: Re: [Snac] draft-ietf-snac-simple-01 review comments
X-BeenThere: snac@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Mailing list for discussing problems relating to the automatic connection of stub networks to existing infrastructure networks. " <snac.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/snac>, <mailto:snac-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/snac/>
List-Post: <mailto:snac@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:snac-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/snac>, <mailto:snac-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2023 19:25:13 -0000

If the home router does PD, we still need a way to send the same iaid and
duid. Making sure the network has a stable id is hard. Thread solves this
by having sleepy devices rely on a neighbor that is not sleepy to deal with
numbering.

Op ma 24 jul 2023 om 12:16 schreef Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca
>

>
> Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:
>     > This would not work for WiFi networks, but possibly we could use the
>     > SSID for this case? Maybe there's not enough randomness in it, but
>
> That seems okay for me, if you put it through some PRF.
>
>     > since it only has to be unique to the AIL, and can't be routed,
> perhaps
>     > that's okay. Is there any other equivalent thing we could do? I'm
>     > highly inclined to just get rid of the "try to remember old prefixes"
>     > text, because our experience is that this approach failed pretty
> often,
>     > resulting in reachability problems that took significant time to
>     > resolve.
>
> So, the stub network gets renumbered after a mains failure?
> (How many thunder storms you get this July?  We got 3-4/week it seems)
> Some battery powered devices will survive and have the old prefixes.
>
> I'm just not keen on this.
>
> Does the problem go away if the home router does PD?
>
>
> --
> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
>            Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
>
>
>
>
>