[tcpm] Re: draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-ao-algs
"Bonica, Ron" <ronald.bonica@hpe.com> Tue, 05 May 2026 13:42 UTC
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From: "Bonica, Ron" <ronald.bonica@hpe.com>
To: John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com>, "tcpm@ietf.org Extensions" <tcpm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [tcpm] draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-ao-algs
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Date: Tue, 05 May 2026 13:42:12 +0000
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CC: "ebiggers@google.com" <ebiggers@google.com>, "Li, Tony" <anthony.li@hpe.com>
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Subject: [tcpm] Re: draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-ao-algs
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John,
My apologies for the typo. It was hasty cutting and pasting.
At this point, I am looking for consensus. Is the WG OK with the following algorithms:
KDF_KMAC256
MAC-KMAC256-128
KDF-HMAC-SHA256
MAC-HMAC-SHA256-128
If not, could we reach a compromise by adding a third option:
KDF_KMAC256
MAC-KMAC256-128
KDF-HMAC-SHA256
MAC-HMAC-SHA256-128
KDF_AES_256_CMAC
MAC-AES-256-CMAC-128
Ron
________________________________
From: John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2026 5:10 AM
To: Bonica, Ron <ronald.bonica@hpe.com>; tcpm@ietf.org Extensions <tcpm@ietf.org>
Cc: ebiggers@google.com <ebiggers@google.com>; Li, Tony <anthony.li@hpe.com>
Subject: Re: [tcpm] draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-ao-algs
The MACs names should not include "KDF"
I do not think TCPM should standardize
KDF_AES_256_CMAC
MAC-AES-256-CMAC-128
Due to the narrow block length of AES-256, AES-256-CMAC does not have good properties, it integrity advantage is quadratic in the number of queries and the expected numer of forgeries is cubic in the number of queries. CMAC also have quite bad properties as a KDF. See e.g.,
https://emanjon.github.io/NIST-comments/2024%20-%20SP%20800-38B%20and%20800-38C.pdf<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://emanjon.github.io/NIST-comments/2024*20-*20SP*20800-38B*20and*20800-38C.pdf__;JSUlJSU!!NpxR!lpVguKhKtiiQrZkWu3hgVDXyZ-Ri6YLx64-5ts9nh3Bf6hqXrRHhRba9GUown4x8caaR6nBnJ86At17dJpyjCqFtng$>
AES-CMAC only make sense for IoT devices that need to use a single primitive for all crypto.
If, TCPM standardize a single set of algorithms, it should be
KDF_KMAC256
MAC-KMAC256-128
If you add a single new algorithm is should be SHA-3. If you add two set of algorithms it should be SHA-3 and SHA-2
KDF_KMAC256
MAC-KMAC256-128
KDF-HMAC-SHA256
MAC-HMAC-SHA256-128
Cheers,
John Preuß Mattsson
From: Bonica, Ron <ronald.bonica@hpe.com>
Date: Monday, 4 May 2026 at 16:13
To: tcpm@ietf.org Extensions <tcpm@ietf.org>
Cc: ebiggers@google.com <ebiggers@google.com>; Li, Tony <anthony.li@hpe.com>
Subject: [tcpm] draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-ao-algs
Folks,
In a series of off-line discussions, Eric Biggers and I have agreed that the draft should include only the following KDFs:
*
KDF_HMAC_SHA256
*
KDF_AES_256_CMAC
And the following MACs:
*
KDF-HMAC-SHA256-128
*
KDF-AES-256-CMAC-128
Does everybody agree? If so, I will update the draft accordingly.
Ron
- [tcpm] draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-ao-algs Bonica, Ron
- [tcpm] Re: draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-ao-algs John Mattsson
- [tcpm] Re: draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-ao-algs Bonica, Ron
- [tcpm] Re: draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-ao-algs Eric Biggers