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[tcpm] Re: draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-ao-algs

John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com> Tue, 05 May 2026 09:10 UTC

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From: John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com>
To: "Bonica, Ron" <ronald.bonica@hpe.com>, "tcpm@ietf.org Extensions" <tcpm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [tcpm] draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-ao-algs
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Date: Tue, 05 May 2026 09:10:18 +0000
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Subject: [tcpm] Re: draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-ao-algs
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The MACs names should not include "KDF"

I do not think TCPM should standardize

KDF_AES_256_CMAC
MAC-AES-256-CMAC-128

Due to the narrow block length of AES-256, AES-256-CMAC does not have good properties, it integrity advantage is quadratic in the number of queries and the expected numer of forgeries is cubic in the number of queries. CMAC also have quite bad properties as a KDF. See e.g.,
https://emanjon.github.io/NIST-comments/2024%20-%20SP%20800-38B%20and%20800-38C.pdf

AES-CMAC only make sense for IoT devices that need to use a single primitive for all crypto.

If, TCPM standardize a single set of algorithms, it should be

KDF_KMAC256
MAC-KMAC256-128

If you add a single new algorithm is should be SHA-3. If you add two set of algorithms it should be SHA-3 and SHA-2

KDF_KMAC256
MAC-KMAC256-128

KDF-HMAC-SHA256
MAC-HMAC-SHA256-128

Cheers,
John Preuß Mattsson

From: Bonica, Ron <ronald.bonica@hpe.com>
Date: Monday, 4 May 2026 at 16:13
To: tcpm@ietf.org Extensions <tcpm@ietf.org>
Cc: ebiggers@google.com <ebiggers@google.com>; Li, Tony <anthony.li@hpe.com>
Subject: [tcpm] draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-ao-algs

Folks,

In a series of off-line discussions, Eric Biggers and I have agreed that the draft should include only the following KDFs:


  *

KDF_HMAC_SHA256

  *
KDF_AES_256_CMAC

And the following MACs:


  *

KDF-HMAC-SHA256-128

  *
KDF-AES-256-CMAC-128


Does everybody agree? If so, I will update the draft accordingly.

                                                                                             Ron

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