Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security
Joe Touch <touch@ISI.EDU> Tue, 09 June 2009 13:43 UTC
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Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 06:42:27 -0700
From: Joe Touch <touch@ISI.EDU>
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To: Fernando Gont <fernando@gont.com.ar>
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Cc: Joel Jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com>, opsec@ietf.org, tcpm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Fernando Gont wrote: ... >> That said there's also some question as what sort of general >> recommendations about hardening tcp would actually be consider >> acceptable (in narrow use cases a lot more of them may well be). >> >> The diligent blacksmith knows that hardening a tool also >> makes it more brittle... > > This is a nice quote, but... I'd like examples. e.g., start discussing > about which specific hardening proposal makes TCP more brittle. 1) any security mechanism that increases complexity - of actions, state, or message exchanges - any of which increases the potential for implementation error 2) any security mechanism that has false positives, i.e., that discards messages deemed a security threat when they were sent for legitimate reasons #1 includes basically everything, from TCP MD5 (and TCP-AO) to tcpsecure and ICMP filtering #2 includes anything with nonzero false positives, such as tcpsecure and ICMP filtering I.e., AFAICT, *everything* that makes TCP more secure also makes it brittle, by definition (ditto for metal hardening, FWIW). The key issue is "when/where is the benefit worth the cost". Joe -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkouZsMACgkQE5f5cImnZruBvACeIsbA4PwpE4xyp22+fGzH/5j2 9DYAoOCTLsrjZU7QcfCXsYq5TERlxcYY =ycUl -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- [tcpm] draft-gont-tcp-security Eddy, Wesley M. (GRC-RCN0)[Verizon]
- Re: [tcpm] draft-gont-tcp-security Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] draft-gont-tcp-security Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] draft-gont-tcp-security Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] draft-gont-tcp-security Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] draft-gont-tcp-security Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Lars Eggert
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Smith, Donald
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Smith, Donald
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Joel Jaeggli
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Smith, Donald
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Lars Eggert
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Todd Glassey
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Todd Glassey
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Lars Eggert
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Lars Eggert
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Joel Jaeggli
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] [OPSEC] draft-gont-tcp-security Joe Touch