Re: [TLS] Adoption call for Deprecating FFDH(E) Ciphersuites in TLS

Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com> Fri, 27 August 2021 18:02 UTC

Return-Path: <sayrer@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3202D3A0AA1 for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:02:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2GtCsOXcdoXI for <tls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:01:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-il1-x12e.google.com (mail-il1-x12e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1FFA43A0A9A for <tls@ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:01:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-il1-x12e.google.com with SMTP id h29so7847884ila.2 for <tls@ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:01:59 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ST/3/ipL+BuwZkaQWBnrltNVG0Fd9CivNfksf/2XaKY=; b=qghlzDGQyGfFBDX86rV067dugo1GEzOB207LsRaS8yoWScNsLS8rXfHZ4ShK/EIN4n +ijSBEIFa/kw3t7/6ZefUlz9NrgoszSOpmDi51GnhhugZL9lNwid48wO+k/55fzQZ6gp bDhCyM4q4VuKRv0EN9patkMSExAEqqZwYYyqAF8uB8qX2UudfkWTj+lQOgSc1gPBdVOD 6taWJB6N2Tev8tCkPp6PBkIUqhiUKTuzolfg9t/rbjIl9kToGcLzDy0pS0VKia7KXT7i c2Xue8gGhNlfpe6LzPftEWh0QVLKXs81sGgc2HuEfUdZcwOMpvCMHg0yRHtvg+Plbtaa rTIA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ST/3/ipL+BuwZkaQWBnrltNVG0Fd9CivNfksf/2XaKY=; b=qfhd5I+BetSVcUojlVG4NVno6qICOok5KfK177m+A260yfd/VUrgDS5J2Jqeamm0hC WCST3rLqydQyFRMFgWe3ID5xGyNrNY9HJtAUMDXs60MWbGbzFq5uwfa6mNxA7PwMJHKx p9HaVdltxnTQV/EdOmyB71OG2mc63r+HtqOj2/glCgd1pxXyckli3UDSLY4X7hcReq6Z XcsROLgS3jRXnX8QsnuIad3PDmDGA/sV+XtKuU8vPMZeXTcqU8vVP9CMjSaUbQ36YnN4 ltmrklcaUWlmABWCeoov+ER1QsADNI27F6FOk8M/kLzYVELI2TJrgAEBWJQZrVswgkoG /VEg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531WhY2crG80Ip5mshoZuApJONxTRmsLGCgiSIceLEMWoljf1Dll 42pbZELB8vYnVnBppRM2cRDbi+ZWcYUzTSDE4dE=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy394ocM2PZNCxx3vfttXzyeZCLPmTe7QCVXjWX4ah1JqRyGPwAOKGgftim8JHV/3LS37p2+K1IwCYraayVYw8=
X-Received: by 2002:a92:cf0d:: with SMTP id c13mr7277284ilo.49.1630087317437; Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:01:57 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAOgPGoC4C0bWz0h0iyzGzMPEoDKAPv4euoOkmS+6Uuxncux4Zg@mail.gmail.com> <cc9c9d9f-d6b1-3b93-1231-a9a9c34a7fcd@gmail.com> <67533325-2983-47B7-871C-D90799D09532@ll.mit.edu> <CAOgPGoDAvnFic3VmEsge3i8C2FEfWp74ac_ievtfNo=MQB+C8g@mail.gmail.com> <C8E91D9B-2326-4AAF-9952-69481081E337@ll.mit.edu> <BD109A95-129A-4995-AFCA-FEF10DBD6440@icloud.com> <CAOgPGoBMhhsTupXuWF__zkLuy-4qQhha_Kp1_+ToZrNoaFUsgQ@mail.gmail.com> <13b9e674-9e0b-46aa-b5d6-49798c310d85@www.fastmail.com> <5D5FB49A-7D18-4EC9-B572-BD860479CD5E@ll.mit.edu> <bc91502a-471e-484e-ae5f-d843b703edd6@www.fastmail.com> <64c6ca0a-b3cf-cbdf-c1be-7cc4cc050a52@gmail.com> <0ba2ed9a-3128-4956-bd9d-2b961cbcb6d0@www.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <0ba2ed9a-3128-4956-bd9d-2b961cbcb6d0@www.fastmail.com>
From: Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 11:01:46 -0700
Message-ID: <CAChr6Sz-tpipLTg_-cGYSoHmWz-VYK=ZT5W-3_cHQmSVnK-Kmg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Filippo Valsorda <filippo@ml.filippo.io>
Cc: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>, "Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL" <uri@ll.mit.edu>, "tls@ietf.org" <tls@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000824c2405ca8e475c"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/J1aApYAkxMcveQROsgAnlZRbWG0>
Subject: Re: [TLS] Adoption call for Deprecating FFDH(E) Ciphersuites in TLS
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tls/>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 18:02:06 -0000

On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 9:42 AM Filippo Valsorda <filippo@ml.filippo.io>
wrote:

>
> If a consistent history of directly linked vulnerabilities across major
> implementations doesn't show something is unsafe, I don't think there is
> progress to be made in the discussion. Blaming the implementers is not
> particularly interesting to me.
>
> Anyway, I don't have an opinion on SHOULD NOT vs MUST NOT, as long as it
> leads to Recommended: N in the registry.
>

I agree. I can't think of a reason to list it as " Recommended: Y".

thanks,
Rob