IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [TLS] Security concerns around co-locating TLS and non-secure on same port (WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-08)

Richard Hartmann <richih.mailinglist@gmail.com> Mon, 08 November 2010 23:19 UTC

Return-Path: <richih.mailinglist@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: tls@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tls@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C9E728C0E3; Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:19:24 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z4YYsLdcMyI4; Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:19:23 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-yx0-f172.google.com (mail-yx0-f172.google.com [209.85.213.172]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A436828C0E0; Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:19:23 -0800 (PST)
Received: by yxp4 with SMTP id 4so4199977yxp.31 for <multiple recipients>; Mon, 08 Nov 2010 15:19:46 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Y3pl5gJtFgtFGfBaEoZc1rXIhzp6HrBtwApwHjZUEDw=; b=kDGN1J/uGKFQ1Ok3P5FlAqLzL/iwJLEvNXOByD6kP/FgTPWHIm4uMmNeFeHuiIM9d3 bf+eTl0ja+SmKisXrz4u7FKUGxHCSNOcRnEtfSdm4FCxaenwlJcXnbSECBxq6cII2rgs wrBVxVN1HIWHUPNfyxXOcbzWFS0DdlpoCctNc=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=RtCCYIXWycrv7fxpDJTv8be4AY3VSCC+DoQA1IILf3Hn3P4x21yBHbTj23qImO1wqK DZVbq7M02LgFSiKTdGwWychGNLNG+PvnhG2hswMXHBPaPy/blFL1vOKPWrGBnK3afFd7 qc+4MhlfSA6mdfqnL1AiHIlpXJiItcZkCmhIM=
Received: by 10.90.49.20 with SMTP id w20mr5959965agw.181.1289258385733; Mon, 08 Nov 2010 15:19:45 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.236.103.170 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:19:25 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <20101108222257.GV6536@oracle.com>
References: <E1PFKZ3-0002jp-Bu@login01.fos.auckland.ac.nz> <p06240843c8fd6c508084@130.129.55.1> <20101108201218.GN6536@oracle.com> <AANLkTinxOvwMXGTH0eOifYQ_vMBx-ZfmOrCD_O=7msHn@mail.gmail.com> <20101108222257.GV6536@oracle.com>
From: Richard Hartmann <richih.mailinglist@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 00:19:25 +0100
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=Z8p11rfRyiWdaY75pNQPxWhy+bQTJWAEkm1Yo@mail.gmail.com>
To: Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams@oracle.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cc: tls@ietf.org, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>, tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [TLS] Security concerns around co-locating TLS and non-secure on same port (WGLC: draft-ietf-tsvwg-iana-ports-08)
X-BeenThere: tls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: "This is the mailing list for the Transport Layer Security working group of the IETF." <tls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tls>
List-Post: <mailto:tls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls>, <mailto:tls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 23:19:24 -0000

On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 23:22, Nicolas Williams
<Nicolas.Williams@oracle.com> wrote:

> If the firewall is not close to the client then the client can still
> fallback on no TLS.

True. I understood your example as "if you only allow TLS, an
overloaded port makes things easier for the firewall admin" which I
did not agree with.


> There's trade-offs all over.  I'm not sure that this one is worth all
> that much either way.  I prefer StartTLS over having two ports for
> everything.

I doubt that everyone will rush to register new ports.


>  I might also be happy with forcing TLS on always for new
> ports,

IMO, this is not realistic.


> but I do worry about training users to click through the
> "is this the right server" dialog ("leap-of-faith").

Agreed.


Richard

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email