Re: [TLS] External PSK design team

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Tue, 21 January 2020 14:53 UTC

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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 06:52:22 -0800
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To: Jonathan Hoyland <jonathan.hoyland@gmail.com>
Cc: Mohit Sethi M <mohit.m.sethi=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, =?UTF-8?B?QmrDtnJuIEhhYXNl?= <bjoern.haase@endress.com>, TLS List <tls@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [TLS] External PSK design team
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I am willing to contribute.

-Ekr


On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 2:50 AM Jonathan Hoyland <jonathan.hoyland@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> This is something I'm very interested in.
>
> Definitely want to participate.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jonathan
>
> On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 10:04, Mohit Sethi M <mohit.m.sethi=
> 40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
>> I would let CFRG deal with the PAKE selection process:
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cfrg/-a1sW3jK_5avmb98zmFbCNLmpAs
>> and not have this design team spend time and energy on designing PAKEs.
>>
>> --Mohit
>>
>> On 1/21/20 11:52 AM, Björn Haase wrote:
>> > Hello to all,
>> >
>> > I am also willing to contribute. My concern is that I observe that in
>> some industrial control applications, PSK mechanisms (that actually require
>> high-entropy keys) are (mis)-used in conjunction with TLS, where the PSK is
>> actually of insufficient entropy (maybe derived only from a 4 digit PIN).
>> >
>> > In order to fix this issue, I'd really appreciate to have an PSK-style
>> TLS operation using a balanced PAKE (note that this could be implemented
>> with virtually no computational overhead in comparison to conventional ECDH
>> session key generation).
>> >
>> > Yours,
>> >
>> > Björn.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Mit freundlichen Grüßen I Best Regards
>> >
>> > Dr. Björn Haase
>> >
>> >
>> > Senior Expert Electronics | TGREH Electronics Hardware
>> > Endress+Hauser Conducta GmbH+Co.KG | Dieselstrasse 24 | 70839 Gerlingen
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>> >
>> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> > Von: TLS <tls-bounces@ietf.org> Im Auftrag von Mohit Sethi M
>> > Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. Januar 2020 10:45
>> > An: Colm MacCárthaigh <colm@allcosts.net>et>; Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com>
>> > Cc: TLS List <tls@ietf.org>
>> > Betreff: Re: [TLS] External PSK design team
>> >
>> > I am certainly interested and willing to contribute. We need some
>> > consensus on whether PSKs can be shared with more than 2 parties,
>> > whether the parties can switch roles, etc.
>> >
>> > EMU is going to work on EAP-TLS-PSK and the question of
>> > privacy/identities will pop-up there too.
>> >
>> > --Mohit
>> >
>> > On 1/21/20 7:33 AM, Colm MacCárthaigh wrote:
>> >> Interested, as it happens - this is something I've been working on at
>> Amazon.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 8:01 PM Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com> wrote:
>> >>> At IETF 106, we discussed forming a design team to focus on external
>> PSK management and usage for TLS. The goal of this team would be to produce
>> a document that discusses considerations for using external PSKs, privacy
>> concerns (and possible mitigations) for stable identities, and more
>> developed mitigations for deployment problems such as Selfie. If you have
>> an interest in participating on this design team, please reply to this
>> message and state so by 2359 UTC 31 January 2020.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>>
>> >>> Joe and Sean
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> TLS mailing list
>> >>> TLS@ietf.org
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