Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension
Joshua Davies <joshua.davies.tx@gmail.com> Tue, 02 August 2011 22:27 UTC
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Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 17:27:11 -0500
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From: Joshua Davies <joshua.davies.tx@gmail.com>
To: mrex@sap.com
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Subject: Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension
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> I haven't heard any use cases for the TLS proxy in this discussion > that are not factually equivalent to wiretapping. Hm - it may be factually equivalent to wiretapping, but I can think of a perfectly legitimate use case for a TLS proxy which MITM's a client, with that client's express consent and knowledge of course - wire-level debugging of an encrypted session. I've set something like this up a couple of times to debug a server that doesn't accept plaintext connections but is still not behaving correctly; I create a proxy that presents a self-signed certificate to the client, ignore the security pop-up warning, and then proxy again to the server (logging everything in between). In this case, I'm "wiretapping", but I'm wiretapping myself. On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Martin Rex <mrex@sap.com> wrote: > Matt McCutchen wrote: > > > > A person using a corporate laptop has no expectation of privacy from the > > company. The proxy extension just offers a technically more capable > > solution for that scenario. > > Not everyone is living in totalitarian countries where this might apply. > > As I previously said, our constitution provides fundamental gurantees > of privacy, and protects against both, government agencies spying > on citizens as well as employers spying on employees. > > > > > > No one is proposing, per se, that TLS interception be used in any more > > places than it is now. Of course, interception may now be used in > > places where it was always desired but could not be used before due to > > protocol issues. However, it's hard to believe that the proxy extension > > would change the market and/or legal forces that currently restrain ISPs > > from routinely intercepting customer traffic, if that is what Martin is > > worried about. > > No, it is primarily about the employer spying on employee case, which > has been clearly ruled unconstitutional in Germany. But the stiff penal > code that might provide sufficient deterrant for ISPs does not universally > apply to employers, leaving you with civil action an "cease and desist" > and a number of completely clueless entry courts. > > > > > > The TLS WG may have a personal distaste for the use case addressed by > > the extension. But I would reason that the use case is valid, thus the > > extension is worthy of standardization to get interoperable > > implementations, and the TLS WG is the best venue available for > > technical discussion. As David explained > > (https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tls/current/msg07920.html), the > > use case does not constitute wiretapping as defined in RFC 2804. > > I haven't heard any use cases for the TLS proxy in this discussion > that are not factually equivalent to wiretapping. > > > -Martin > _______________________________________________ > TLS mailing list > TLS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls >
- [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Yngve N. Pettersen
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Adam Langley
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Adam Langley
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Matt McCutchen
- [TLS] Certificate pins vs. MITM proxies Matt McCutchen
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Matt McCutchen
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Matt McCutchen
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Marsh Ray
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Anders Rundgren
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Ken Peirce
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Matt McCutchen
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Joshua Davies
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Ken Peirce
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Philip Gladstone
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Kemp, David P.
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension David McGrew
- Re: [TLS] TLS Proxy Server Extension Ralph Holz