Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 to WG draft
zhai.hongjun@zte.com.cn Wed, 28 March 2012 07:25 UTC
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Cc: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>, "rbridge@postel.org" <rbridge@postel.org>, "rbridge-bounces@postel.org" <rbridge-bounces@postel.org>, "hu.fangwei@zte.com.cn" <hu.fangwei@zte.com.cn>, "Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)" <tsenevir@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 to WG draft
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Hi Jana, In PN draft, it is optional but not necessary to use PN node as root to form a DTree. When we wrote the 02 version of PN draft, we had considered using PN node as root to form trees, but we found there would not be as many trees as PN nodes (or virtual RBridge Groups). So PN node as root is only an optional approach. Then another approach is given in PN draft, which using PN node as an ordinary node in forming a DTree. In the later approach, maybe some the member RBridges of a virtual RBridge Group are not attached directly to the PN node in any formed DTree. If this happens, we propose such an RBridge should forward (or tunnel) the received native traffic to another member RBridge that directly attaches to the PN node at least in one DTree. Then the later RBridge ingresses the traffic into TRILL campus to avoid failure of RPF check on a remote RBridge. Thanks, Zhai Hongjun """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Protocol Development Dept.VI, Central R&D Institute, ZTE Corporation No. 68, Zijinghua Road, Yuhuatai District, Nanjing, P.R.China, 210012 Zhai Hongjun Tel: +86-25-52877345 Email: zhai.hongjun@zte.com.cn """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Janardhanan Pathangi Narasimhan <jana@force10networks.com> 2012-03-28 14:27 收件人 "zhai.hongjun@zte.com.cn" <zhai.hongjun@zte.com.cn> 抄送 Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>, "hu.fangwei@zte.com.cn" <hu.fangwei@zte.com.cn>, "rbridge@postel.org" <rbridge@postel.org>, "rbridge-bounces@postel.org" <rbridge-bounces@postel.org>, "Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)" <tsenevir@cisco.com> 主题 RE: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 to WG draft Hi Zhai, I think the other point in the pN draft is The requirement in the PN draft is that we should form a tree with the PN node as the root of the tree. In case we have many LAN links, for e.g. 10, than we would need 10 trees where each tree has the corresponding PN as the root of the tree. A similar approach was one of the options considered earlier, but since this would not sale in terms of number of trees, it was felt that the requirement that the PN be the root of the tree would not be possible. Thanks Jana The main difference between PN draft and CMT draft as follows: 1) In PN draft, a member RBridge employs pseudo-LSP to carry pseudo-nickname and members of a virtual RBridge group, 2) While in CMT draft, Affinity TLV is introduced to carry pseudo-nickname and the wanted DTrees by a member RBridge. > 1) In figure 2 of the CMT draft, the nodes CE1, CE2 etc. treat their links to RB1, > RB2… RBk as a LAG. Hence if RB1 sends a TRILL hello frame on this link towards CE1, > this will not be received by any of the other RBridges RB2, .. RB4. Hence the concept > of AF will not be applicable in this scenario In PN draft, TRILL hello is mainly used to find member RBridge and to negotiate the pseudo-nickname of a virtual RBridge group. For a virtual RBridge group, if its member RBridges and pseudo-nickname are configured statically by a network administrator, TRILL hellos are not requisite in PN draft. Therefore, the idea proposed in PN draft, i.e., giving a pseudo-nickname to an RBriges Group and using pseudo-LSP to carry information of this RBridge group, is also applicable in the CMT scenario (given in figure 2 of CMT draft). Furthermore, using pseudo-LSP, instead of a new TLV, can avoid the backward compatibility issue. > 2) In the PN draft, only the AF will forward all traffic into and out of this network, > and this is because it is regular Ethernet link. But in the CMT draft the links are > all LAGs, and hence the traffic (for e.g. broadcast from CE1) is sent to only one of > the RB1 and not to all of them. Although the PN draft discusses the issues of pseudo-nickname mainly based on Ethernet link, the idea of pseudo-nickname and employing pseudo-LSP to carry RB Group info is also applicable in other scenario, such as LAGs and multi-homing. Whether using one member RB or all member RBs to forward traffic for an end system, it depends on in which scenario the pseudo-nickname is used, but not the different ways to implement the pseudo-nickname function between PN draft and CMT draft. Thanks, Zhai Hongjun """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Protocol Development Dept.VI, Central R&D Institute, ZTE Corporation No. 68, Zijinghua Road, Yuhuatai District, Nanjing, P.R.China, 210012 Zhai Hongjun Tel: +86-25-52877345 Email: zhai.hongjun@zte.com.cn """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Janardhanan Pathangi Narasimhan <jana@force10networks.com> 2012-03-28 00:09 收件人 "zhai.hongjun@zte.com.cn" <zhai.hongjun@zte.com.cn>, "Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)" <tsenevir@cisco.com> 抄送 Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>, "rbridge@postel.org" < rbridge@postel.org>, "rbridge-bounces@postel.org" < rbridge-bounces@postel.org>, "hu.fangwei@zte.com.cn" < hu.fangwei@zte.com.cn> 主题 RE: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 to WG draft Hi Zhai, Few points: 1) In figure 2 of the CMT draft, the nodes CE1, CE2 etc. treat their links to RB1, RB2… RBk as a LAG. Hence if RB1 sends a TRILL hello frame on this link towards CE1, this will not be received by any of the other RBridges RB2, .. RB4. Hence the concept of AF will not be applicable in this scenario 2) In the PN draft, only the AF will forward all traffic into and out of this network, and this is because it is regular Ethernet link. But in the CMT draft the links are all LAGs, and hence the traffic (for e.g. broadcast from CE1) is sent to only one of the RB1 and not to all of them. So I think the problem space that these two drafts are discussing are different, and the Pseudo Node draft will not be applicable to the LAG active-active load balancing scenarios described in the CMT draft. Thanks Jana From: rbridge-bounces@postel.org [mailto:rbridge-bounces@postel.org] On Behalf Of zhai.hongjun@zte.com.cn Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 4:49 PM To: Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir) Cc: Donald Eastlake; rbridge@postel.org; rbridge-bounces@postel.org; hu.fangwei@zte.com.cn Subject: Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 to WG draft Hi Tissa In your CMT draft, if one old RBridge is momitored not supporting affinitive-TLV, the CMT function will be disbale in all the TRILL campus. In my mind, that's your discussion for backward compatibility in CMT. So CMT can not work until all the RBridges support affinitive-TLV. However, in the PN draft, there is no such backward compatibiltiy. PN draft employs pseudo-LSP to announce the pseudo-nickname and members of a virtual RBridge. If the pseudo-nickname and the members are configured statically by network administors, no hello PDUs are necessary between the members of a virtual RB group. So the pseudo-LSP method given in PN draft can also work for the scenario described in your CMT draft. Thanks, Zhai Hongjun """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Protocol Development Dept.VI, Central R&D Institute, ZTE Corporation No. 68, Zijinghua Road, Yuhuatai District, Nanjing, P.R.China, 210012 Zhai Hongjun Tel: +86-25-52877345 Email: zhai.hongjun@zte.com.cn """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" "Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)" <tsenevir@cisco.com> 发件人: rbridge-bounces@postel.org 2012-03-27 18:12 收件人 <hu.fangwei@zte.com.cn>, "Donald Eastlake" <d3e3e3@gmail.com> 抄送 rbridge@postel.org, rbridge-bounces@postel.org 主题 Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 to WG draft Hi Hu CMT draft discuss about backward compatibility and your assessment of RPF failure when older RBridges present is incorrect. Additionally I am not clear PN draft can be utilized for the scenario described in the CMT. Per the discussion we have in Taipie, most Data Centers and Enterprise have multi home devices connected to the TRILL edge. They will not let LAN Hello to pass through them because of the LAG bundling at the edge. Please refer to the reference topology in the draft. Hence CMT draft address very crucial deployment scenario. Thanks Tissa From: rbridge-bounces@postel.org [mailto:rbridge-bounces@postel.org] On Behalf Of hu.fangwei@zte.com.cn Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 9:41 PM To: Donald Eastlake Cc: rbridge@postel.org; rbridge-bounces@postel.org Subject: Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 to WG draft Hi,all We have discussed that there is back compatibility issue for CMT. Only if all the member RBridge of a virtual group support Affinity sub-tlv, the CMT can work correctly. If one of the member does't announce the virtual RBridge nickname and the Affinity sub-tlv, there may exist RPC check failure for the virtual RBridge. The issue that CMT try to solve is not an essential and key issue for trill, and CMT should be a optional solution. Some RBridges may not implement the feature. I wonder whether the CMT will does work actually because of the back compatibility issue. There is another solution (pseudonode nickname) solves the same issue. I suggest we should do further discussion with CMT and compare with the two solutions. Thanks Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com> 发件人: rbridge-bounces@postel.org 2012-03-27 06:38 收件人 rbridge@postel.org 抄送 主题 [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 to WG draft During the TRILL session today, there was a consensus of those in the room to make draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00.txt a TRILL WG draft. This is a call on the WG mailing list to confirm that consensus. If you wish to respond, please do so by April 10th. Thanks, Donald ============================= Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com _______________________________________________ rbridge mailing list rbridge@postel.org http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/rbridge _______________________________________________ rbridge mailing list rbridge@postel.org http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/rbridge -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam system. -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam system. -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam system.
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- [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 to WG… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… hu.fangwei
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Jon Hudson
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… zhai.hongjun
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Janardhanan Pathangi Narasimhan
- 答复: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Mingui Zhang
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Radia Perlman
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… zhai.hongjun
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Janardhanan Pathangi Narasimhan
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… zhai.hongjun
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
- 答复: RE: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-… zhai.hongjun
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
- 答复: RE: RE: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-… zhai.hongjun
- 答复: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Mingui Zhang
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
- 答复: RE: RE: RE: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-tr… zhai.hongjun
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Rohit Watve (rwatve)
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Janardhanan Pathangi Narasimhan
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
- 答复: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Mingui Zhang
- 答复: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Mingui Zhang
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Janardhanan Pathangi Narasimhan
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
- 答复: Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-… zhai.hongjun
- 答复: 答复: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-… zhai.hongjun
- 答复: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Mingui Zhang
- 答复: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Mingui Zhang
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Janardhanan Pathangi Narasimhan
- 答复: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Mingui Zhang
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Janardhanan Pathangi Narasimhan
- 答复: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Mingui Zhang
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Janardhanan Pathangi Narasimhan
- 答复: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Mingui Zhang
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Janardhanan Pathangi Narasimhan
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Janardhanan Pathangi Narasimhan
- 答复: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Mingui Zhang
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… letracy
- 答复: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Mingui Zhang
- Re: 答复: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-… Jon Hudson
- 答复: 答复: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-… Mingui Zhang
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
- 答复: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Mingui Zhang
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Janardhanan Pathangi Narasimhan
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… ayabaner
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Mingui Zhang
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Sam Aldrin
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Anoop Ghanwani
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Ramkumar Parameswaran
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Mingui Zhang
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… zhai.hongjun
- Re: [rbridge] Call for draft-tissa-trill-cmt-00 t… Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)