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Re: [tsvwg] L4S dual-queue re-ordering and VPNs

Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com> Mon, 10 May 2021 13:00 UTC

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From: Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 16:00:45 +0300
Cc: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>, TSVWG <tsvwg@ietf.org>
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References: <68F275F9-8512-4CD9-9E81-FE9BEECD59B3@cablelabs.com> <1DB719E5-55B5-4CE2-A790-C110DB4A1626@gmx.de> <MN2PR19MB40452C9DD1164609A005139583569@MN2PR19MB4045.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <e15d732f64bf983975dbe507092b39f0744f7f74.camel@heistp.net> <1efe0dfb-afb6-0aa4-dcff-fb4ddeb46b8f@bobbriscoe.net> <689EAC46-9873-40BC-A8EE-12060336FB19@gmx.de> <a6ae94e9-4bdb-222b-d206-7f35fc807948@bobbriscoe.net> <42ECC889-440C-4DE1-BD8C-C983387E460C@gmx.de> <2a3d13ef-043d-aaa9-d036-c7945676f6f7@bobbriscoe.net> <595F0D20-CE6C-4A85-85BD-536DDFDF4D82@gmx.de>
To: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [tsvwg] L4S dual-queue re-ordering and VPNs
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> On 10 May, 2021, at 12:07 am, Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de> wrote:
> 
>> I should maybe add a point zero that Jonathan often makes about FQ AQMs:
>> 0) bottlenecks tend to be congested only transiently
> 
> 	[SM2] Which is enough to cause the issue, and the classic queue is expected to see periodic peaks (the data transmitted into the network between the AQM emitting a CE/drop and the sender learning about that)

And, more to the point, the much more serious DoS scenario involves an attacker deliberately inducing *persistent* congestion at the DualQ node.  That renders any argument that it "only happens occasionally" completely moot; the attacker can choose when those occasions occur.

 - Jonathan Morton

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