Re: [tsvwg] L4S dual-queue re-ordering and VPNs

[Sebastian Moeller <[e-mail]>]

Hi Bob,

> On May 18, 2021, at 10:06, Bob Briscoe <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> Sebastian,
> 
> I think this thread has converged on agreement on every point - so no need to reply.
> See [BB2] for a couple of clarifications.

	[SM] I just want to emphasize one point below, see [SM3], I took the liberty to reduce the cited text.


> 
> On 09/05/2021 22:07, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
>> Hi Bob,
>> more below, prefixed [SM2].
>> 
>>> On May 9, 2021, at 18:50, Bob Briscoe <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> [BB] I thought you agreed it would likely be worse with Diffserv (which is status quo)
>> 	[SM2] Not what I intended to convey. In my setting of end-users using an encryppted VPN from their home link, and either OpenVPN or nowadays more often wireguard, DSCP propagation is not happening by default and hence can not be a significant cause of concern, I hope that clarifies my position.
> 
> [BB2] This is a view of a world populated by techies who choose their own VPN software. I accept that the VPN products that you select from don't propagate the DSCP. But we also need to think of all the commercial VPN products that IT departments choose and install on behalf of their end-users so they can access the work intranet from home or while on the road. That's all I'm trying to explain here.

	[SM3] I think that getting change into commercial VPN products to change is a much easier task than to get in into all end-user run VPNs. For one there is only a limited number of relevant VPN vendors/developers that would need to "bake" changes into their product and/or their documentation and that might even be able to send all of their customers information about expected changes (via update notes or maintenance contacts). Also if an IT department exists that is in charge of operating a VPN, IMHO they can be reasonably expected to understand/research how to implement such a change or find different work-arounds. 
	Normal end-users will have to do all of this themselves... without professional help, this is why I want to focus on that perspective of the issue (and I do not want to imply that getting change into commercial VPNs is going to be easy, just a lot easier than without).

Best Regards
	Sebastian