Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-options-12
"C. M. Heard" <heard@pobox.com> Mon, 14 June 2021 19:51 UTC
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From: "C. M. Heard" <heard@pobox.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 12:51:22 -0700
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To: Tom Herbert <tom@herbertland.com>, Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>
Cc: Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>, TSVWG <tsvwg@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-options-12
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On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 11:44 AM Tom Herbert wrote: > If it's required and it's first then it's no longer an option, it's > just a two-byte field in a header that precedes the option list. This > is much better for efficient processing. > That idea will work, but if it is adopted, I would like to make sure that the following points are covered: 1.) Many of us want it to be possible to include "safe" UDP options in a trailer for compatibility with legacy receivers who don't support UDP options. 2.) OCS needs to be present in that case too, and it must cover the entire trailer, in order to ensure middlebox traversal (as discovered by Tom Jones). Thus, if there is a UDP options header that contains OCS, it would need to be at the front end of the options trailer. If that header included a total options length, EOL would no longer serve a useful purpose. Everything from the first byte pointed to by the option length to the end of the packet would be padding, required to be set to zeroes (but not required to be checked), and would be covered by the OCS. Honestly, though, I fail to see a compelling advantage in having a UDP options header, since an implementation of UDP options is required to loop through all options in the packet. To paraphrase RFC 791, what is optional is not the requirement to inspect options when present, but the requirement that they be in any particular packet. Given that, I don't see how an options header would be better for fragmentation offload than what I proposed in https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/N1fmoBxQ5iOL5X7o34oVSA8Ayvw/. On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 11:52 AM Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> wrote: > It isn’t required. It’s required to be first *if present*. It’s still > optional if the UDP checksum is zero. > For the record, it actually does not matter where OCS is placed when it is required to be present (UDP CS<>0), for it is possible to check OCS without ever parsing the options at all: just calculate the Internet checksum over the trailer (using the appropriate pseudo-header, of course). That comprehensively covers the case where UDP CS<>0, which IMO is the important one, as CS<>0 is required by operational considerations in most situations. For sockets where UDP CS=0 is allowed, OCS is optional unless the receiver is configured otherwise. In that case it is indeed advantageous to require that OCS be first (preceded only by a handful of NOPs) if it is present. It's not hard to implement optional OCS with UDP CS=0, but IMO parsing a list of TLVs without first doing an integrity check is a very risky business, and I question whether it adds any value. (But I won't squawk if it stays.) Mike Heard
- [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-options-… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Paul Vixie
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joe Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Paul Vixie
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Tom Herbert
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] A review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-opti… Paul Vixie
- [tsvwg] UDP Options - per segment or per datagram C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] UDP Options - per segment or per data… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] UDP TIME Option - per segment or per … C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] UDP REQ/RES Options - per segment or … C. M. Heard
- Re: [tsvwg] UDP TIME Option - per segment or per … Joseph Touch
- Re: [tsvwg] UDP REQ/RES Options - per segment or … Joseph Touch