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Re: [tsvwg] ECT(1) Flag Day Plausibility

"Holland, Jake" <jholland@akamai.com> Fri, 14 May 2021 22:05 UTC

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From: "Holland, Jake" <jholland@akamai.com>
To: "Bless, Roland (TM)" <roland.bless@kit.edu>, "tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [tsvwg] ECT(1) Flag Day Plausibility
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Date: Fri, 14 May 2021 22:05:08 +0000
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Subject: Re: [tsvwg] ECT(1) Flag Day Plausibility
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Hi Roland,

On 05-14, 5:35 AM, "Bless, Roland (TM)" <roland.bless@kit.edu> wrote:
> I find it somewhat odd to deprecate/revise a Proposed Standard in order 
> to rollout an Experiment.

RFC 8311 also did this, I don't see this idea as especially different
on this point.  I mean sure, maybe it's odd, but sometimes the right
thing to do can be odd.

From the poll at the interim, there seems to be significant support in
the WG for moving this ahead regardless of the conflicts with existing
BCPs, which is about what I expected based on past discussions.  The
flag day proposal is just trying to look into one of the possibilities
for making that align better.

> Moreover, where can I find statistics about ECN usage along Internet 
> paths? I'm aware of 
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-heist-tsvwg-ecn-deployment-observations-02.html, 
> but are there others?

I did a presentation last year sharing a few observations I made:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1326B7YYwLM&t=4338s
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-maprg-01/materials/slides-interim-2020-maprg-01-sessa-latency-aqm-observations-on-the-internet-01.pdf

Those slides reference another presentation with some other numbers
collected differently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKDgVSMUvis&t=32m23s
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/slides/slides-98-maprg-tcp-ecn-experience-with-enabling-ecn-on-the-internet-padma-bhooma-00#page=12

Outside Pete's writeup that's all I've seen published yet.

> I'd expect many home routers to be the bottleneck, so their potential
> CE marks wouldn't be visible in the Internet, but merely the
> corresponding ECE flags in TCP packets.

That's what I did, yes.

Apple's measurements were from agents on the receive side IIUC and
I think they said included upload traffic, which I took to mean they
took both CE and ECE that didn't trigger their heuristics as evidence
of a CE-marking path.

HTH.

Best regards,
Jake

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